Episode 5 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:00.63)
Hello and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. Today I'm joined by singer, songwriter, and multi-instrumentalist Jane Sheldon. Hi Jane.

Jane Sheldon (00:08.936)
Hi Chad, thanks for having me.

Chad (00:11.614)
Absolutely. Why don't you introduce yourself, tell my five viewers and my three listeners all about you.

Jane Sheldon (00:17.053)
Hahaha!

Jane Sheldon (00:20.448)
Well, I think you're gonna have six or seven because at the coffee shop up by my house, I told them I was on this podcast and I said, oh, I met him because he does these amazing memes of Steely Dan. They're like, what is it? And they followed you on Instagram. So one more follower.

Chad (00:34.902)
Nice. Excellent.

Jane Sheldon (00:38.192)
Yeah, but my name is Jane Sheldon and I am a, like you said, a songwriter, singer. I play many instruments, not all of them fabulously, but I, you know, have fun. I live in Los Angeles, California. And yeah, I have a nine-year-old son who is amazing and taking up a lot of time in the best way.

Chad (01:04.553)
That's a great age.

Jane Sheldon (01:06.052)
It's the best. And he was actually able to come, it was the first time he was able to come to a show of mine because I play at bars, you know, and they're late, whatever. So he was able to come to the show that I just did at the Troubadour. And it was very sweet because he was right up at the front. And that was pretty sweet to have him there. Yeah.

Chad (01:15.202)
Right.

Chad (01:27.202)
That's amazing. So let's talk about the Troubadour show. When I saw that you were performing there, I was just blown away. I mean, that place, as you know, just has a wild history. You know, I mean, it was sort of one of the places to play in LA in the 60s and 70s. And really, even in the 80s, the hair bands kind of took over, so.

Jane Sheldon (01:45.544)
Right, they did. They did.

Chad (01:46.09)
Yeah, what was the experience like playing there? What was it like being on that stage?

Jane Sheldon (01:51.752)
Well, it was really an incredible place. I mean, I played a lot of places, but you could just feel the, I don't think it's really been touched since they opened it. And you could just, you know, it's just big, beautiful wooden room, and you could just feel the, all of the history in there, and it sounds great. It really sounds great. It is a great sounding room.

And everybody who's played there is like, oh, it just sounds so good up there. And it really did. It was a lot of fun to be there.

Chad (02:28.846)
That's awesome. I took some time and I went through the Troubadours website because I think I was just saying this to you before we started recording. There is just so much that has happened there and so many bands either played legendary shows there or got their start there. So they had this whole great page of like sort of a timeline and history of the club. So I figured it'd be fun to go through some of the highlights from the 70s and we can talk about some of the people that are mentioned.

Jane Sheldon (02:57.5)
Yeah, I love that.

Chad (02:58.702)
Great, so starting in 1970, apparently Don Henley and Glenn Fry from the Eagles met for the first time in the bar at the Troubadour. I didn't know that either, you know, I think that's fascinating. I don't know if it's before the Eagles really got started or I mean, obviously before they, you know, they were meeting for the first time, but I mean, I'm not sure like where in their careers they were at that time.

Jane Sheldon (03:07.324)
Incredible. I didn't know that.

Jane Sheldon (03:20.776)
Well, I think, and I could be wrong, but I think that they were both, they both ended up backing up Linda Ronstadt was the history of the Eagles, right? Like they started as, they were just players for Linda and then they decided to go, you know, let's do our thing. But I didn't know that they met in that bar. That's cool.

Chad (03:26.923)
Right.

Chad (03:39.55)
Right? Well, according to their website, I guess that's a point of pride. So that's pretty cool. Another interesting one, and I think I knew about this one, is Zeppelin played a monster show at the LA Forum that same year. And I guess after the show, they all ended up at the Troubadour, and they got on stage with Fairport Convention and just had this massive jam session for three hours.

Jane Sheldon (03:48.832)
It's really cool.

Jane Sheldon (03:58.174)
and

Jane Sheldon (04:07.056)
So that's an interesting hybrid. I wouldn't put those two groups together, but that sounds, that's great. I wonder if they're recording that.

Chad (04:18.218)
Yeah, and they crossed over on, you know, I'm not sure. Robert Plant apparently was a huge Fairport Convention fan and I know in the Battle of Evermore, that's Sandy Denny on some of the backing vocals, right? So, yeah. But I just can't imagine, you know, I mean.

Jane Sheldon (04:30.605)
Yeah.

Chad (04:35.814)
Even in 1970, Zeppelin was huge. Just being there to see Fairport Convention and all of a sudden, like, you know, Plant Page, Bonham, John Paul Jones, they all just kind of wander in and they're like, okay, we're just gonna go take the stage and have this jam session. That was amazing.

Jane Sheldon (04:43.196)
Yeah. I'm like, get up there. Yeah. I love that when very, very successful musicians will just get up and play anywhere. It's cool.

Chad (04:57.526)
Definitely. All right, so moving on to 1971. Again, a meeting at the Troubadour that was significant for the future of music. Carly Simon met James Taylor for the first time. And they, of course, got married later and had this great musical history between the two of them. So, yeah.

Jane Sheldon (05:10.118)
Hmm.

Jane Sheldon (05:19.044)
Indeed. Yes. Yeah. It's a little bit of a volatile pairing, I think. But some good songs came out of that. I love Carly Simon. She's fantastic. She's, she's a, I think she's a very underrated songwriter.

Chad (05:24.366)
Yeah, for sure. Yes. Me too.

Chad (05:35.854)
I agree. What are your thoughts about James Taylor? I mean, he's obviously a legend, but he's not one of my favorites, I'm not gonna lie.

Jane Sheldon (05:42.268)
He's not, I gotta tell you, you know, I respect him. I think he's not somebody I ever seek out to listen to. He's obviously a great guitar player and Fire and Rain is a beautiful, you know, it's a classic. And there's just something about his music that doesn't make me.

It doesn't draw, it's not compelling to me in the same way as other artists of that era were. So I'm gonna choose Carly Simon. Over my lucky post-divorce is Carly Simon. Yeah, it's been Carly.

Chad (06:24.186)
Me too.

Team Carly all the way.

Alright, so moving on to 1975, Miles Davis records his Live at the Troubadour album. I have to say I'm not super familiar with that. I'm obviously a big Miles fan, but it's one of the albums that I just haven't listened to a whole lot. I mean, I've heard it, but now I'm gonna have to go back and revisit it.

Jane Sheldon (06:48.328)
Yeah, I've never, I haven't heard that record either. I bet that's, yeah, that would have been, that would have been a cool kind of time travel-y thing, right, if you can time travel anywhere, go to that show. Yeah.

Chad (06:57.51)
Oh, I would love to be at that show, are you kidding? And 70s Miles, right? Like mid 70s Miles, so it's like, you know, post-Bitches Brew, but like before he got into all the weird stuff in the 80s, so I think it might have been a good... I'll have to go check the track listing and see what's on there.

Jane Sheldon (07:11.593)
rights.

Jane Sheldon (07:15.007)
Yeah.

Chad (07:16.198)
Alright, 1979, another underrated, I think, singer-songwriter, Rikki Lee Jones, releases Chuck E's In Love, which apparently she wrote about musician and former troubadour employee, Chuck E. Weiss. So there's a connection there.

Jane Sheldon (07:30.708)
I didn't I didn't know he was connected to the troubadour at all. Interesting. Yeah.

Chad (07:35.082)
Yeah, neither did I. I guess he must have worked there around that time. And then also in 1979, kinda coming back full circle to the Eagles, they released the song Sad Cafe, which was written about the troubadour. Yeah, didn't know that either. Didn't know that either, but.

Jane Sheldon (07:48.964)
Really?

Jane Sheldon (07:53.684)
I didn't check their website before I played there. I just thought that this is all new. This is cool.

Chad (07:59.274)
Me too. Again, I knew it had a great history. I knew about a lot of things. Like, you know, Lenny Bruce, I think, was the first person that was sort of notoriety there. But all these other things, I just had no clue. So it was fun learning about that today.

Jane Sheldon (08:11.615)
Yeah.

That's good history, good trivia. Well, and I think it several years ago was on the verge of closing. Yeah, it came close and I'm not sure how it got salvaged, but thankfully it did. It's an important venue to keep alive for sure. Yeah.

Chad (08:16.746)
And then we can...

Chad (08:21.322)
Really?

Chad (08:31.45)
Oh, absolutely. Which brings us to the 80s. And I think we can just skip over that and just say that the hair bands took over, right, that whole thing. But most notably, I think Metallica and Guns N' Roses played some of their first shows there. No hate to hair metal, by the way. I was into it for a while.

Jane Sheldon (08:38.013)
No.

Jane Sheldon (08:50.272)
I, so speaking of 80s, I guess it would have been.

So I was born in 82 and my brother is 10 years older than I am. He's a musician and he used to play those spots on the strip, like club lingerie and gazari's. And so I was a kid. I couldn't go to the shows. My parents were very, very supportive. And so we would go and stand outside those clubs. And I remember being, you know, seven years old and being outside of like club lingerie and gazari's and just like the hair and the whole thing, you know.

Chad (09:16.93)
Ha ha.

Jane Sheldon (09:24.976)
Pretty funny memory.

Chad (09:26.574)
That's amazing. Another time travel moment would have been like just a sunset strip in the 80s, that whole scene. But I mean, even just as an adult, just being there, as a fly on the wall kind of thing, like crazy. And then, we could keep going, but one last entry that I noted.

Jane Sheldon (09:28.467)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (09:35.068)
Yeah, I was there for a little bit.

Jane Sheldon (09:41.64)
Totally.

Crazy. Yeah.

Chad (09:51.174)
In 1991, Pearl Jam, who had been performing under the name Mookie Blaylock up until that point, actually played their first show as Pearl Jam at the Troubadour.

Jane Sheldon (10:00.686)
Wasn't Mookie Blaylock, wasn't that some kind of sports player? I was the other player. Love it. For what team? Yeah. You're my great name. You're so good.

Chad (10:05.93)
Yeah, he was a basketball player.

Chad (10:11.134)
I don't know, I'm not a sports guy. My knowledge of sports is really around how it ties into music and other things, but yeah.

Jane Sheldon (10:20.508)
Are you going to watch the Super Bowl? Yeah?

Chad (10:22.238)
Well, that I watch every year. So my wife and my daughter, who's 17, and I, we have fun with it every year. We make boxes and we do all the side bets, like how long is the National Anthem gonna be? Is it gonna be less than or greater than two minutes? And what color is the Gatorade gonna be at the end? We do all that stuff, so we make a fun night out of it.

Jane Sheldon (10:36.689)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (10:42.076)
Or is your daughter into Taylor Swift? Okay.

Chad (10:44.946)
Not really. Yeah, she's got a really great taste in music. Not to say that Taylor Swift isn't great taste, but she's just into so many things, but Taylor's is something that never really resonated with her as much, I don't think.

Jane Sheldon (10:58.412)
So she's not caught up in the whole national consciousness. Is she gonna make it to the Super Bowl? Does she have enough time? Can she get on the plane at 10? I find it so funny to me that how incestuous people are.

Chad (11:01.11)
Hahaha

Chad (11:06.17)
I'm sorry.

Chad (11:10.602)
Oh, it's great. And I love how much of an uproar it is and how people are just getting so upset or happy about it on the other side of things. You know, it's, it's great. It is. I have a feeling some of the side bet stuff this year is going to be all around, all about Taylor, you know, what time is she going to get there? How many times are we going to see her on screen? Is she going to run on the field if they win? Like all that kind of stuff. So.

Jane Sheldon (11:20.408)
Very polarizing. It's pretty unbelievable.

Jane Sheldon (11:33.512)
Yeah, yes and yes and yes.

Chad (11:37.238)
Yeah, that'll be great. So let's talk about your music, which, you know, before, obviously, before we met on Instagram, I wasn't really aware of your music, and now I am, and I have to say, I love it. I went back and listened to your first EP. I listened to your recent EP of covers, which I love the title, Somebody Else's Favorite Song, which is obvious. Of course, it's FM.

Jane Sheldon (11:59.412)
You get the reference. No, but you know what's so funny is very few people get that reference. I guess they're just not in the Steely-Dan world like you and I are. But I'm glad you picked up on that.

Chad (12:15.638)
Hahaha

And I don't consider FM to be like a deep cut by any means, but I agree there are a surprising number of people who even really like Steely Dan and just don't know that song because it was never released really. It was a single and it was only on the greatest hits albums. And you know, it just sort of didn't hit the consciousness I guess for some folks, but yeah. Immediately saw that and loved it. And when I saw Bad Sneakers, that's right. No static at all.

Jane Sheldon (12:38.096)
No static at all.

Chad (12:43.382)
When I saw Bad Sneakers on your EP, I got excited and talk to me a bit about how you decided to record that and you know, the arrangement is phenomenal. I really like what you did with it.

Jane Sheldon (12:56.372)
Thanks, yeah. So I started collaborating with the person who produced it. His name's Stevie Black, and he's an incredible string arranger by trade. And he's worked with, you know, Miley and Madonna and tons and tons of people. And so he and I started working together and we'd written some songs. And then I was like, you know, I just kinda wanna do, I just wanna do an EP of covers and I really want to fuck them up.

Chad (13:26.103)
Hahaha

Jane Sheldon (13:26.586)
I want to just like, let's do them so different than the original and just have fun. And it was sort of started as a over COVID, you know, so we'd get together in masks and where we could and just kind of it took it took, you know, a good long time because there were it was over isolation mostly. But bad sneakers I had. You know, I just was.

Chad (13:35.423)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Sheldon (13:50.908)
going through the Steely Dan songbook and I have, I can't remember, it's the sheet music of the first seven records. And so I would just sit at the piano and play through the songs. And I sort of had the bare bones piano idea and it was a little bit faster and Stevie was like, let's slow it down. And we slowed it down and we...

Yeah, we just wanted it to be very kind of simple piano string quartet and sort of take it to a different emotional place than the original does. And yeah, I'm really proud of how that one turned out. That might be my favorite off of that record. I just, I think, I think it, I'm very proud of that one.

Chad (14:39.89)
As you should be. It's great. And I love, and the strings are so great because, like you said, it sort of sets the mood and it gives it a whole different vibe. And most notably, you know, Steely Dan didn't really use strings in any of their recorded songs, right? I think Through with Buzz is the only one that has strings.

Jane Sheldon (14:53.252)
I really didn't. I think there's one more. I don't remember which track it is, but yes, Three with Buzz is an incredible string arrangement. I can't remember them. He's a famous string arranger. I can't remember his name, but yeah, it's interesting. I'd like to, if I ever get to talk to Faken, I'd like to ask him his why, you know? Why didn't they use more strings? I guess they didn't have to.

Chad (15:17.766)
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it, they didn't have to. They did do some string arrangements for other artists, which was funny. Like, you know, some of the early drill building stuff, and they were brought in to do arrangements for J and the Americans, and some of the other bands and stuff that they didn't necessarily record, even not on their own songs. But, you know, how do you do horn and string arrangements all that time, and then just not bring it into your own music, I guess. Like you said, they just didn't have to, because everything else was so great.

Jane Sheldon (15:44.792)
was a very cool sound. I mean, they certainly used horns. But yeah, it's an interesting choice that they really did not go there. And I love a good string section on a rock track. Yeah.

Chad (15:58.314)
Oh, me too. So keeping that Steely Dan connection alive with the recording process, Leneese Bent, hello, sheesh. How did that happen?

Jane Sheldon (16:07.344)
Yes! Yes, I agree!

So Lenise and Stevie, the producer, go way back. And it just was a sort of a natural idea of like, you know what, let's see if Lenise wants to mix this one. And so Stevie sent her a rough and she loved it. And she said, yes, yes. And she put her magic on it. And she had great ideas of like, you know, when to bring in the violin and when to pull it out. And she really brought it.

to a whole new level. And she's such a cool person. She had a lot of stories, which I won't share, but. On camera. It was special to work with her and have her on this as this full circle Steely Dan moment.

Chad (16:46.219)
Yes.

Chad (16:49.721)
Hahahaha!

Chad (17:02.666)
Amazing. I'm lucky enough that she followed my stupid meme page on Instagram and She's liked a few things and every time she does I'm like I get giddy. I laugh. I'm like cool And he spent like my like my name. This is awesome. You know like it just makes my whole day Yeah, super cool

Jane Sheldon (17:07.924)
That's so great. Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (17:18.148)
Yeah, no, she's cool. She's really got, she's got quite a resume of who she's worked with. She doesn't have any heirs about her either. She's a really, really cool person. I like her a lot. Yeah.

Chad (17:33.87)
That's great. So the other song that stood out on the EP is the, I Want You to Want Me, which, you know, goes in a completely different direction than the original. Love it. You know, how did you decide to take this sort of, I don't want to say bubblegum pop, but like, you know, Cheap Trick was so upbeat and peppy and happy for most of their hits in the seventies. And, you know, I would never think of that song in a minor key.

really slowed down with the string section, like you made it into sort of a sad love song, right, as opposed to like, I guess, which it was originally, I guess, but the music sort of masks that feeling that you get from the lyrics, right, unless you really overanalyze it. And I never had, I guess. And then when I heard your version, I was like, wow, that's not a happy song.

Jane Sheldon (18:07.036)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (18:20.76)
Yeah, I think I said when I posted it, I don't know if it's still up there, but I think I said, you know, most some songs like people are sad, you just have to get them alone in a room. You know, and that song is like you start I just I heard it and I was like, I started listening to the lyrics. And it's a really sad song, you know.

Chad (18:34.754)
Hahaha

Jane Sheldon (18:47.908)
I want you to want me, I want you to need me, I'd love you to love me. That's a song of longing and mourning and wanting. And so I just kind of just sat with it at the piano again. And yeah, it just came to me as a totally different idea of let's make this a song of unrequited love, piano string quartet, just simple.

Jane Sheldon (19:14.948)
It was obvious, actually. It was like this obvious thing. Once I started doing it, I was like, this is how this song should be. Not to say that the original is, I mean, the original is great. It's so fun and poppy and, you know, immediately it comes on and you start you start shaking your body and popping. And that's a good thing. But but just. Yes, I feel like I want to kill myself now.

Chad (19:15.09)
It works.

Chad (19:19.95)
hahahaha

Chad (19:33.674)
Yeah, absolutely. And when you hear your version, you sit and cry. Ha ha

Jane Sheldon (19:45.066)
Thanks, that was a fun one. His strings too on that I think are so gorgeous.

Chad (19:49.598)
Yeah, oh yeah, the strings are fantastic. So let's just sort of maybe stay in the Silly Dan world for a bit. So I know just from reading your bio on your website and stuff that, you know, your dad played you a lot of music growing up, as did mine, although my dad was really more into older classic.

stuff and not necessarily rock and roll as much. He was a little older. So I got a completely different sort of world growing up between his music and then my mom came up in sort of the same era, but then my brother and sister who were 11 and 13 years older than me, kind of like your brother. So I got this whole sort of generational leap of music growing up.

Jane Sheldon (20:22.882)
Oh. No.

Chad (20:28.822)
which sort of shaped my musical taste. But what are your earliest memories of hearing Steely Band? What initially attracted you to them? What are some of your favorite songs? Let's do that.

Jane Sheldon (20:38.144)
I can tell you exactly what happened to me with Steely Dan. So yes, like you, my father was musical. My brother was 10 years older. And so there was a lot of more sophisticated stuff playing in the house. And my dad was a big Steely Dan fan. And it was on in the house. And I, you know, it was like.

It was just sort of a background thing. And then I started to drive when I was 16. My parents had a Ford Taurus and it had a cassette deck. And I was driving around by myself in Santa Monica, where I grew up. And my dad had left a cassette of Katie Lyde in the tape deck. And so I was like, I should give this a shot. And at that time, I was.

You know, I started playing guitar, I think I was maybe 13, and I was into Nirvana, you know, and sort of the bands of that time, Hole, and I learned how to play guitar, just listening to those records and just figuring out the bar chords and stuff. So I had that under my belt.

Chad (21:41.454)
Sure.

Jane Sheldon (21:44.74)
And so I was driving around and this Katie Lied was in the tape deck and I was like, I'm gonna just give this a go. And I turned it on and it was set to Daddy Don't Live in that New York City No More was the track that it was on. And I just hadn't heard anything like that song before.

You know, that da-d

Chad (22:07.685)
Oh yeah.

Chad (22:34.414)
Ha ha ha.

Jane Sheldon (22:35.068)
in after that I was just like I need more I need more and I think the next record I went to was Pretzel Logic and then I just was all in from that moment so 16 on six maybe 17 16 17 on was it was all about Steely Day and I still have never I never get sick of those records I always go back to them and hear something new.

Chad (22:41.41)
Okay.

Jane Sheldon (23:03.868)
and something will catch my, you know, I'll hear a lyric differently or a guitar phrase or piano, you know, just it really just keeps on giving.

Chad (23:14.23)
They do. Those albums are, you nailed it. I mean, like even still, I'll listen to stuff and hear something I hadn't heard before or just some phrase or something will hit me a different way. And I do a lot of listening in the car, which is not the best environment to hear all the nuance in music. So recently I've been trying to listen with headphones, you know, and like really focus just to kind of, again, revisit some of the songs that I love and just hear new things and I still do. You know, it's crazy.

Jane Sheldon (23:28.221)
and

Jane Sheldon (23:42.416)
Yeah, it's crazy. It's probably, you know, the best recorded music of all time. Just in terms of sonically, how it sounds and all of the nuances that in the time and the energy and the production and the money and the just, you know, records like that will never be made again.

Chad (24:05.774)
Right? That's true. And it's funny that you had Katie Lyde as your first exposure. I think mine was as a kid, I had a little record player, one of the old 70s models that was like a little suitcase that opened up and the, you know, right? And my sister who worked in radio would always give me whatever records that, you know, she got as promos and, you know, they didn't want her, they had duplicates of or what have you. So I remember one of my earliest.

Jane Sheldon (24:07.904)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (24:18.696)
Yeah.

Chad (24:33.738)
memories of playing my own records on that record player was Josie by Steely Dan. I don't think it was in 77 when it came out, it might have been a few years after, so I was probably seven or eight years old, but even at seven, eight years old that song just grabbed me, the guitars and the drums and just the rhythm and the words that I had no idea what the hell they were talking about as a kid, you know what I mean? Shine up the battle apple. Yeah, right, exactly, what the hell's a battle apple?

Jane Sheldon (24:55.917)
Yeah. You're like, what are hats and hooters? Yeah. I still don't know what a battle apple is.

Chad (25:02.314)
Joe, would you love to Scrapple? It's a made up word, but it just, you know, why not, right? And then, you know, I think Asia was in the zeitgeist at that time and Gaucho. So I think I picked some of that up again, just from, you know, my sister and from hearing it on the radio. Hey 19 was a current, you know, when I was that age. And kind of didn't really get the bug for Steely Dan until I was probably.

Jane Sheldon (25:07.112)
It's so good. Yeah.

Chad (25:30.634)
like you somewhere in my mid to late teens. And Katie Lied was kind of a gateway drug for me. I heard Dr. Wu and that just blew me away. You know, I used to play saxophone so the sax solo in that is just aces and.

you know, it sort of led me to sort of be like, okay, let me listen to the rest of this album and see what other songs I like on it. And I loved the whole thing. And like you, I kind of then went, you know, I knew of Asia and Gaucho, like I said, so I went back and explored those further. And then went backwards and did Pretzelogic and, you know, the first two albums and everything else. And since then it's just been, you know, in regular rotation.

Jane Sheldon (26:12.496)
Yeah, yeah. Does your family partake in your Steely Dan love?

Chad (26:18.486)
Unfortunately, no. I'm not going to say my wife's a hater, but every once in a while she's like, dude, can you listen to something else? I do, and the funny thing is I do. I listen to so much other stuff. I think that my focus the last few years, again, has been Steely the Anim in that phase right now. My daughter...

Jane Sheldon (26:20.553)
Hahaha! Uh-uh.

Jane Sheldon (26:30.08)
like, no, I really can't. I can't do that.

Chad (26:44.47)
It's funny, she isn't really into them yet. I'm hoping to just sort of subvert her and make her a Steely Dan fan. But I was playing stuff in the living room.

I think she thinks she doesn't know a lot of Steely Dan songs, but songs were coming on and she was like, I know that song, I know that song. So I was like, okay, good. At least she knows it and can recognize it. So that makes me happy.

Jane Sheldon (27:08.86)
Yeah, it sort of creeped into the subconscious. And then maybe later on in her life, she'll be like, you know what, I want that. I'm gonna listen to that again. He laid the foundation and then, yeah.

Chad (27:17.386)
Yeah, I think she will.

I think she will. So what are your, besides, you know, that I don't live in that New York City no more, which I love that you put that on the playlist that you made for me, and we'll talk about the playlist in a bit, some other standout tracks for you. Like I know people ask me that all the time because, you know, they think I'm a huge Daily Dan nerd and I am, but I don't have a permanent...

I don't like to rank things anyway, but I don't really have a permanent top list. It's just the stuff that I'm into right now, right? Like the Seelie Dan catalog kind of revolves through my listening habits, I guess.

Jane Sheldon (27:44.829)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (27:53.5)
I always say the best, my favorite song, Steely Dan song is the one that I'm listening to. Right? It's like, what's ever one I'm listening to. But you know what, you know what? Which song I've been sort of going, well, I love Pixellene. I feel like that's sort of a deeper cut that people don't, you know, the last two records sort of get dismissed, I think, by a lot of.

Chad (27:58.863)
Hahaha, right. Hahaha, for sure.

Chad (28:10.336)
Yeah.

Chad (28:19.093)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (28:19.536)
downheads. And I go back to Pixeline a lot. I just feel like that song is cool. It's just weird and does it for me. I love the opening line. The manaboo squeezes off 20 tracer rounds. Just weird. And that's when she jumps the turnstile.

Chad (28:26.571)
Yeah.

Chad (28:36.478)
Yeah, yeah, I love that song too. It's such intrigue, you know, some of the lyrics. They draw you in with that opening line and then they just take you on this wild ride, you know, through this character or this sort of vignette, if you will, you know.

Jane Sheldon (28:53.26)
Yes, yes, absolutely. I don't think you can, you can't take away those lyrics from the music, you know, they're both like right, that level with one another in terms of sophistication and interest. And it's not really about, you know, people always, I see on these groups, like people are trying to dissect what the songs are about. And I think it misses the point. I think it's about the feeling, right?

Chad (29:18.288)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jane Sheldon (29:19.708)
It's pulling you in. It's paint- it's painting with words. It's visuals and Creepy creepy characters that are in the seedy underbelly. I heard somebody describe it. I can't remember who it was, but somebody said euphoric failure. Euphoric failure.

Chad (29:37.706)
I love that.

Chad (29:42.274)
Have you seen the Quantum Criminals book?

Jane Sheldon (29:45.36)
I've seen it. I have not picked it up. I have. I know very little about it. Have you read it?

Chad (29:50.594)
I got a copy for Christmas this year and I read it. I was holding off when it came out. I was sort of torn because as much as I love to just absorb everything Steely Van, and I was looking forward to reading the prose part of it, I was a little bit taken aback by the fact that somebody painted pictures of all these different characters and scenes and things. Yeah, because I feel like it was just gonna ruin it for me because, you know.

Jane Sheldon (30:11.559)
Like Hoops McCann and

Chad (30:18.25)
listening to them for 40 something years, I kind of have preconceived notions in my head of what these things look like. And like you said, like the lyrics and the music, they kind of paint a picture for me. So to see somebody else's interpretation is fine, but I'm just like, I don't know if I agree with any of them. And the paintings are fabulous. Joan LeMay, who did all the artwork, she's an amazing painter, like not to take anything away from her art, but there are just some representations that I was like, really?

You know what I mean.

Jane Sheldon (30:47.208)
Yeah. It's sort of when your favorite book becomes a movie. And that's never going to be as good as how your brain has made it for you.

Chad (30:52.672)
Right.

Chad (30:59.678)
Exactly. So that's a good, oh go ahead.

Jane Sheldon (31:04.286)
I was going to say one of my favorite books is a Confederacy of Dunces.

Chad (31:07.68)
Yes.

Jane Sheldon (31:08.6)
And that has the history of, you know, they've tried to make that into a movie for decades and decades and it always fails. It falls through in development. I think they say now that it's cursed. But I'm kind of glad. I'm like, please never make this into a movie. It will never be as good as the book in any capacity. It just couldn't be. It's such an amazing piece of literature.

Chad (31:33.062)
Oh, I agree. And there are some things that shouldn't cross into other sorts of media, right? And I feel like a couple examples for me is that they tried a couple times to make Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy into a movie. Failed miserably, one of my favorite books. On the less cerebral side, there's a series of books called the Jack Reacher series. I don't know if you're familiar.

Jane Sheldon (31:58.268)
I've heard of it, yeah.

Chad (31:59.87)
Yeah, so great books, well written, but they're, you know, they're spy military police crime type novels and they're great. I've been reading...

I can't think of the author's name off the top of my head, which is alarming because I just literally heard it yesterday. Anyway, it'll come to me. So I just love those books, and you know, a bunch of years ago they made one of the books into a movie. And in the books they describe Jack Reacher as being like 6'5", 270 pounds, like this massive guy with like baseball mitts for hands, and he's just like this total badass. And they cast...

Jane Sheldon (32:18.421)
Hahaha!

Jane Sheldon (32:38.141)
Right.

Chad (32:40.782)
Tom Cruise.

Jane Sheldon (32:42.064)
No!

Chad (32:44.93)
Even with elevator shoes, Gaucho reference, even with elevator shoes, Tom just didn't do it for me. It literally ruined. So I mean, you know, I watched the two movies that they made and I just sort of hate watched them. I was like, this sucks. This sucks, you know, the whole way through. So fast forward to, I guess it was a couple of years ago, Amazon optioned another one of the books to make a series. And I was like, oh, here we go again. But they cast this guy.

Jane Sheldon (32:48.905)
No. Ha ha

Jane Sheldon (32:54.772)
Ehehehehehe

Chad (33:11.698)
Alan Richin and he fits the description like he is Reacher. So you know, they redeemed themselves or the author redeemed himself by insisting that they get somebody who actually looks like what Reacher should be. But it was the same kind of thing. It was like you have this picture in your head and this great description of this character in all these novels and like all of a sudden you go to the movies and you sit down and it's like Tom Cruise, really?

Jane Sheldon (33:15.964)
Okay.

Jane Sheldon (33:34.816)
Hahaha

Jane Sheldon (33:39.156)
Jack Reacher, the search for more money.

Chad (33:43.082)
Pretty much. Well great, so let's if you wouldn't mind let's pivot a bit. I loved listening to your first EP and some of your other singles that were on Spotify. I have to say that like your music, your originals, you sound like Southern California. I hear so much of that influence. Beach Boys, Joni, I hear some Tom Petty. I get strong 70s vibes.

What's your writing process? Where did some of those songs come from? And I think I have a good sense of your influences, but maybe you can list some for my six or seven viewers now. Ha ha ha.

Jane Sheldon (34:24.885)
Sure. We're growing, we're gonna grow it. You know, my process is kind of different for each song. I don't have any sort of specific thing of like, this is how I write, but usually I will come up with

Chad (34:28.663)
Alright.

Jane Sheldon (34:42.932)
the music first and then I'll hear a melody in my head and then I'll sort of get a little nugget of something and it's kind of like cracking a code, you know? So it's like, okay, I have this part, but now...

Now I'm gonna have to go, how do I wanna start this? Or how do I wanna, where does this wanna go? And sometimes it's really easy. That's always the best, you know? When it's just like, okay, this is, I have this idea and I'm gonna flush it out and it just come, it just pours out of you. That's very rare, but it's great when it happens. But it's rare, you know? And I have songs that I've been working on for years. I call it snippets disease. We all get like a, you know, you'll get a snippet of something and then you can't crack the code and it just is like, oh,

And I'm trying to get better about finishing it. Even if it's not a good song, even if it's not good, it's done and that's, it's a song, it's complete. So I'm trying to get out of my head in that way of just actually finishing the idea, even if it's not perfect. But...

I wrote this song, I went to, so I have a nine year old now, and we took him to Disneyland, this was maybe seven years ago, six years ago, and we went on Small World, and he came home and he was singing, he was singing the Small World song, but he inverted the line, he said, after all, it's a small world, after all, it's a small world, and I was like,

That's a kind of, I like how you, I like that. And I, so I wrote a song around that inversion. So the chorus is after all, it's a small, small world, after all it's a small, small world. And it's sort of the idea of like, you can't outrun this relationship. You've done all of these things, you've gone all these places, but you can't, you can't outrun it, right? And so it hits the chorus is after all, it's a small, small world. So sometimes I'll get ideas of songs just through things that happen. And I'm like, that's a lyric, that's a concept, that's cool, let's run with that.

Chad (36:29.958)
Right.

Jane Sheldon (36:45.452)
Or if it's a co-write then it's that it's whole, you know, that's a whole other animal You know, if somebody will have bring you a core of the you know chord progression and then I'll have a Top-line idea or something or vice versa and it becomes its own alchemy I've written a lot with my brother. My brother and I were in a band together for a decade We're in a band called American bloomers and he's an incredible songwriter. He's really one of my favorite singer songwriters. He's just

that good. So he's always been a pleasure to write with. And there's a thing when you're writing with a family member too where it's like sometimes you'll write with people and you have to be delicate because you know it's their soul, it's their idea but like when you're writing with your brother you're just like no that's that. You know, no I don't like that idea. And the relationship remains.

Chad (37:20.941)
I listen to some of that too.

Chad (37:28.599)
Right?

Chad (37:38.986)
Yeah, right, right. That's, yeah, well that's, I mean, you know, siblings is a whole different thing. And I was gonna ask you about that. Like, you know, what was that like? Is, you know, did he pull the big brother card a lot and say, oh, we're doing it this way because, you know, I'm older. Did you guys have a better, you know, how did you sort of work out that sort of stuff as you were writing together and recording together?

Jane Sheldon (38:01.776)
Yeah, so he the first

The first entry into recording, I think I was 16 or 17, and he wrote these songs and produced a record, produced it was like maybe a three or four song EP. And we recorded with David Bearwald at his studio in Venice. David was, he's an amazing singer songwriter, and he had this beautiful studio in Venice. He wrote, he co-wrote Strong Enough with Sheryl Crow. He's an incredible musician. So we recorded it at his studio.

Chad (38:28.799)
Oh wow, okay.

Jane Sheldon (38:34.57)
actually funny because the piano player on that demo when I was 16 or 17 played piano on the linger cover that I just did. So it's like kind of this cool full circle thing, you know. But my brother's always been very... he has a...

Chad (38:46.115)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (38:53.628)
He has a vision, you know, he can hear something and he's good at kind of getting it, parsing things out and getting to that thing that he's hearing in his head pretty quickly. And he's, yeah, but he's also diplomatic and very easy going and he's a good guy.

Chad (39:12.854)
Nice. So you've also had a song featured on a TV show, and you had a really cool Christmas song, which I listened to, and then realized there was a video for, so I went and watched that. I was like binging Jane Shelton this morning before we got on the podcast, so why don't you tell me about those two and how those came about?

Jane Sheldon (39:22.068)
Yeah, um yeah. Thank you.

Jane Sheldon (39:29.888)
Yeah, so the Christmas song, I think everybody, like I saw, you know, you reach a certain point as a songwriter where you're like, I think I should write a Christmas song. I was like, I think I'm gonna write a Christmas song. And I was, you know, there's just thousands of songs about Santa, but there's very few about.

Chad (39:40.93)
Ha ha ha!

Jane Sheldon (39:50.896)
Mrs. Claus and I was like, let's give her some representation. You know, she deserves a little credit for her contribution to this whole.

operation. And so I had this idea of like, you know, this is going to be about Mrs. Claus and she's, it's Christmas Eve and she's done all this work and now she's gets to celebrate. So she goes to a bar and the celebration is about her, you know, like let's raise a drink to Mrs. Claus and set up a double jack. This one's for Mrs. Claus tonight. You know, and so I had, I think, I think that's how I thought about it. It's like, I wanted it to feel kind of like a Springsteen song in a way of like, you're at a bar and you're live and it's like, set up a double jack. This one's for

Chad (40:01.633)
Indeed.

Chad (40:26.541)
Right?

Jane Sheldon (40:30.034)
Claus. And then the video was really awesome. Terry Hatcher's a friend and she agreed to play Mrs. Claus in the video and a lot of other friends sort of stepped up and helped and we took over a bar in Atwater Village and Matt Ryan, who's an amazing DP, he filmed it and

It was just a great, it was a really fun project to bring that video to life. With the puppets too. Yeah, amazing.

Chad (41:04.894)
It's a fun video. I enjoyed it. And oh, yeah, I love the puppets.

I will link the video and the show notes for this episode too.

Jane Sheldon (41:14.901)
Oh, cool. Okay. Great.

Chad (41:19.062)
and then your song that was in a TV show.

Jane Sheldon (41:23.012)
Oh yeah, so I've had a couple of songs. I've had American Bloomer songs for in a couple episodes of The Big Bang Theory. And then the latest placement was Nancy Drew.

Chad (41:31.902)
Oh wow, okay.

Jane Sheldon (41:40.228)
And that was a song called Go Quietly that I wrote with Alan White, who he's an amazing songwriter. He he's Morrissey's co-writer. He's written, I think, 60 or 70 songs with Morrissey. So like all those great Morrissey songs like We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful and First of the Gang to Die. You know, he wrote the song. So I've known him for many years and we just collaborated. And that luckily got placed in that in that show.

Chad (41:49.506)
Okay.

Jane Sheldon (42:10.082)
which was wonderful.

Chad (42:12.606)
Yeah, that's super cool. So next on my list of things to talk about, you sent me this fabulous playlist. Not only did I love most of the songs on it, but I feel like I didn't know some of the others and I'm a little embarrassed because I think their album cuts like Masoko Tango by the Police, great song, but like when do you ever intentionally put that song on? Maybe you do, but I don't think I ever have. It's just like it plays if I'm listening to the whole album. And

Jane Sheldon (42:37.706)
Yeah.

Chad (42:42.166)
the standout and we messaged about this and it was awesome was you said no particular order but yet you kicked off the playlist with Easy Lover by Phil Collins and Philip Bailey and that is a kick-ass opening track for a playlist I just realized and it's an instant put me in a good mood track it's like brain bleach like you listen to that song you just can't be in a bad mood so yeah well

Jane Sheldon (42:50.775)
Hahaha

Jane Sheldon (43:04.84)
You can't. No.

Chad (43:07.538)
So tell me about some of the songs on the playlist and why you included them maybe, or just what are you listening to right now? What are some of the tracks that you're playing on repeat?

Jane Sheldon (43:17.584)
Okay, well I will tell you in my house, my son is obsessed with Hamilton right now.

Chad (43:25.089)
Nice.

Jane Sheldon (43:25.632)
Hamilton, the musical. And I ignored it for several years because I was like, there's no way that this is as good as everybody says it is. There's no way. And I kind of just didn't, I don't know. I didn't go see it and I hadn't listened to it. And then my son, well, my son went through a big Weird Al Yankovic fan, Weird Al Yankovic face. And Weird Al does this polka medley of Hamilton. I don't know if you've heard it. It's incredible.

Chad (43:49.723)
Oh wow. I haven't. Oh wow.

Jane Sheldon (43:52.54)
It's incredible. And so that was the gateway because it was this medley of these Hamilton songs. And then he wanted to listen to the, you know, the original recording. And he was like, all right, let's go for it. And then he's like, he became obsessed with it. So that has been on repeat, like the top, my Spotify best of or whatever the twenty percent they're most listen to the Hamilton Broadway cast recording, which is, by the way, it's every bit as good as everybody says.

Chad (44:12.412)
hahahaha

Chad (44:21.454)
Oh it is, a thousand percent. Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (44:22.974)
It's incredible. So that's been, that's a big thing. I didn't put any of that on the playlist, but that's been a big, big listen over here. But I think we talked about New York City Serenade, which I put on the playlist. And that's actually, you know, when I was recording Bad Sneakers, I was thinking about that song a lot, just sort of like the emotional.

Chad (44:39.223)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (44:50.908)
that sort of the outro, I kind of wanted the outro of Bad Sneakers to have that same emotional content that New York City Serenade had. And it's a song I go back to over and over again. It's 10 minutes long, which is great. Like it's an incredible feat to make a piece of music that is 10 minutes long, that is not boring. That is the opposite of boring. It's completely compelling in every second of it.

Chad (45:10.602)
Yes.

Jane Sheldon (45:18.507)
And I just, that's a song I never get sick of and never will.

Chad (45:23.734)
I think it's one of my absolute favorite Springsteen songs. You know, it's, that album is one of his best, I think, especially as a singer songwriter. I mean, just as a songwriter even.

you know, people hate on Bruce and look, I'm from Jersey. I grew up in Jersey. I used to hate on Bruce. Hometown hero, but you know, like born in the USA and all that stuff. I mean, it was just like, okay, it was like beaten to death in New Jersey, obviously, right? So by the time, you know, and that was when I was.

Jane Sheldon (45:43.364)
It's hometown hero.

Jane Sheldon (45:50.791)
Mm-hmm.

Jane Sheldon (45:54.516)
Yeah.

Chad (45:58.718)
in my formative music years, I guess. So it wasn't until much later, probably in college, there was a really great used record store in the town where I went to school. And I forgot how I ended up with it, but I got a cassette of Darkness on the Edge of Town. And I think somebody that I was friends with at school recommended it. And I was like, Springsteen, really? And they're like, just listen to it. So I bought it for like...

Jane Sheldon (46:15.136)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (46:24.942)
$3 in the used bin or something and I throw it in the tape deck in my car and just you know You should just drive around and be doing nothing whenever listening to it and I was just like wow I had no idea he had that kind of depth, you know and then of course that led me backwards into wild in a sytney street shuffle and greetings to Masbury Park and you know the Golden era as I as I think of it as of Bruce. I mean, it was just amazing

Jane Sheldon (46:37.991)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (46:49.444)
Yeah, he's he and in the band and yeah, they're probably in my, you know, if not my top five, my top 10 for sure.

Chad (46:59.278)
Yeah, great. And the other standout track, I think, I'm looking around my microphone, Say So by Doja Cat. That was sort of like a left field, but tell me why that made it on the cut. Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (47:06.461)
Yeah!

Jane Sheldon (47:10.852)
I love her. She's so great. She's really one of my favorite artists to come out of the past, I guess, what five years maybe. I just think she just writes really good songs and they're fun and catchy and hooky and she can rap really well and she's, I like, I think she's dope. I like her a lot. I love that song.

Chad (47:27.018)
Yeah, me too. Me too. First exposure was, you know, every TikTok for like six months. That song is the music and my daughter, my daughter would show me TikToks and I'm like, why does everybody have that song? And she's like, it's a great song. And then I was like, okay. So I listened to the whole thing and I was like, well, you're right. This is a great song. Yeah. It's funny how.

Jane Sheldon (47:34.14)
Right.

Jane Sheldon (47:46.364)
the guys on. It's so good.

Chad (47:49.402)
I've tried to get my daughter into stuff and I've made her playlists and I play stuff for her in the car all the time and you know give her recommendations but I think it's been both ways since she's been about you know 12 or 13 and she's really started to get into music on her own Just the amount of things that she's gotten me into an artist that she's played for me and even things that I

listened to when they were out, you know, 10, 20 years ago that she's discovered sort of sparks like a re-interest if you will for that kind of stuff for me too, which has been fun.

Jane Sheldon (48:23.156)
That's really fun. That's cool. That's great that you guys can share that bond. Very cool.

Chad (48:27.594)
Yeah, it's a lot of fun. She's really into Radiohead and she likes smashing pumpkins. And the other day we were in the car and she was playing a playlist and it was 90%, like 90s alternative. And I was like, what year is this? Did I fall into a time machine? This is great. This...

Jane Sheldon (48:44.608)
Like the 90s are having this renaissance because it was so long ago, you know? Yeah. Do you have a famous Ashen Pumpkins record?

Chad (48:49.982)
Yeah, for sure. So, oh, Siamese Dream, hands down. You know, they were on the verge of breaking up, I think. It was like just the most angsty time in the band and it shows, you know, and Billy Corrigan was just working around the clock doing hundreds of overdubs and playing all the parts and, you know,

almost Steely Dan level obsession over the studio process and how things are recorded. With Butch Vig, by the way, you know, engineering and producing and the guitar sounds on that record and just some of the atmospherics, the playing. Jimmy Chamberlain is one of my favorite drummers. Yeah, I mean, I just it's one of my top 10 favorite albums ever. How about you?

Jane Sheldon (49:40.252)
Yeah. I'm gonna have to say, Melancholy and the Infinite Sadness, just because it's a nostalgia thing for me, you know? I was maybe 14 or 15 or something when that record came out and it just kind of brings me to that time immediately, you know? And just sitting with the liner notes and that double album and there's just something about that record but I'm gonna have to tip it to that one.

Chad (49:43.079)
Okay.

Chad (49:56.022)
Right?

Chad (50:06.258)
I heartily endorsed that and I think that record got a lot of undeserved shit because it was a double album nobody was doing double albums at that point and I think he wanted to do a triple Billy and That everybody was like you can't like you know, let's just let's be realistic here Let's keep it at a double and I think he finally backed down and agreed to it but I think he had all this music in him and he wanted to get out and that record just runs the gamut from

Jane Sheldon (50:15.464)
Hahaha!

Jane Sheldon (50:26.9)
Yeah.

Chad (50:30.762)
you know, screaming heavy metal riffs to just gorgeous strings and pianos and it's unreal. So yeah, I'm with you on that one. I think that's my second favorite. There was a time when I would have said Gish because that was my first exposure to the band. It's funny, I have a friend. Hi Amy, if you're ever watching this. Amy and I used to just like...

Jane Sheldon (50:39.973)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Chad (50:52.206)
turn each other on to music, that was our thing. And I remember distinctly the first time I heard the pumpkins, I was picking her up, we were going somewhere to hang out or go to eat, go out to eat or something. And she jumped in my car and she popped out whatever tape I had in the tape deck and she put a tape in, I said, what are you putting in? And she goes, just listen, just this shit's gonna blow your mind, just listen. And it was I Am One, which is the opening track on GISH. And I was like, holy shit, holy shit.

Oh my god, I was just blown away by the music. I'm like, who is this? And she's like, some new band called Smashing Pumpkins. I don't know. She goes, it's really good. And I was like, yeah, it's really good. Yeah, it was one of those musical moments, you know, for sure.

Jane Sheldon (51:35.452)
Yeah, that you remember. Are you into Jenny Mitchell at all?

Chad (51:40.082)
I am. I like Blue, I like Court and Spark, I like Hegera, Hissing of Summer Lawns, Coyote, like you know, some of the classics.

Jane Sheldon (51:49.46)
Yeah.

I remember that I had a moment with Blue, the first time I heard Blue I was at my friend, my friend Laurie's house and she had the CD and we were probably 13 and kind of Discman. I think I brought over a Discman to the sleepover or whatever and I found that record and I just was listening to it in the first track, All I Want. And I, the same, this kind of the same kind of Steely Dan moment of like, what is, I've been waiting to hear this my whole life. I've been waiting to hear this. That's still like one of my.

Chad (52:02.903)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (52:13.546)
Yes.

Jane Sheldon (52:21.425)
absolute favorite records.

Chad (52:22.982)
Yeah, love it. I never really dug into her whole catalogue. I think I was more of a hits kind of person, but definitely just, you know, love her voice and love her songwriting. Let me see. So on my playlist recently, I'll give you a few things that I've been listening to. I have been obsessed with the song, Angel of the Morning, but not the Juice Newton version, the original by Evie Sands.

Jane Sheldon (52:31.584)
Great.

Jane Sheldon (52:37.321)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (52:52.009)
Okay.

Chad (52:55.011)
I listen to almost every genre, like, you know, everything from hip hop to country to metal to steely band and the hot rock and classic rock and alternative, you name it, I can get into it. But I think classic country for the last few years and...

even some like Americana stuff and some of the Southern California country rock really has sort of made a reappearance in my listening. So I heard the Juice Newton version and I didn't know that it was a cover. I never knew that. So I forgot how I stumbled across the original version. I think maybe when I went and searched on Spotify, because I was gonna throw it on my playlist, and I think the other version came up right next to it. And I was like, oh, somebody covered Angel of the Morning. And I looked at the date, 1967, Evie Sands.

Jane Sheldon (53:28.073)
Hmm.

Jane Sheldon (53:38.972)
That. And then that was the original.

Chad (53:44.156)
And she wasn't even the first one to have a hit with it. Somebody else, somebody merrily, I think was her name, had the first hit version of it on the radio, like the next year or the year after, and then, you know, Juice resurrected it and was at 80, 81. So yeah, so that's been in rotation. Are you familiar with Letters to Cleo? So love them, always love their stuff. You know, they kind of got buried in that deluge of 90s alternative bands, but...

Jane Sheldon (53:44.544)
Ah!

Jane Sheldon (54:03.924)
Yeah.

Chad (54:13.078)
You know, it's really hard not to have a crush on Kay Hanley. She's just awesome. And they did like a reunion EP in 2016. And the single from that EP is called Four Leaf Clover. And it's like the perfect three minute pop rock song. So again, I'll send you a playlist and I'll link all this stuff in the show notes and stuff, but you should definitely check it out. Yes, they did.

Jane Sheldon (54:28.)
Okay.

Jane Sheldon (54:31.668)
Huh.

Jane Sheldon (54:34.952)
I think they covered, didn't they cover, I Want You to Want Me? Ha ha ha.

Chad (54:41.15)
It's funny, they got a lot of notoriety for their covers. They did that, they did Dangerous Type by The Cars, and they did another cover that ended up in a movie, I think, so they had that moment of like, 90s pop rock, punk band covers, 70s classic rock kind of stuff. Sister Havana by Urge Overkill.

Jane Sheldon (55:01.905)
Okay, I don't know that song.

Chad (55:04.463)
They were, again, kind of a great band out of Chicago. They were, I don't wanna say lost in the shuffle, but they were sort of in the middle of the whole grunge thing. They weren't grunge. They were more just straightforward rock and roll, but such a good song. The drums.

Jane Sheldon (55:18.836)
They did the cover, it was on the Pulp Fiction soundtrack. Didn't they cover Girl It Will Be a Woman soon, right? Yeah, that's a great cover.

Chad (55:25.482)
Yes, they did. It's a fantastic cover. And that whole album saturation is great if you haven't heard it. And then finally, a track that my daughter played incessantly for a few months and got me hooked on it. Doomsday by Lizzie McAlpine.

Jane Sheldon (55:45.632)
Okay, I don't know that.

Chad (55:48.266)
worth checking out. She's a young singer-songwriter and this song is kind of like a dirge. It's just great. Really spooky and sad and, you know, I'll let you listen to it. I won't give you too much on it. Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (56:01.354)
Let's figure it.

Cool, that's a good eclectic mix. I think this playlist should be run the gamut of all different genres, you know?

Chad (56:09.774)
That's...

Chad (56:15.282)
It should. And like you said, my favorite song is the one I'm listening to, right? And I think that's what's happening with me lately is like, I'll just and having Spotify is such a good thing and a bad thing. Good thing because everything at your fingertips, bad thing because everything at your fingertips, it's hard to focus and listen to something all the way through because you can just jump to anything.

Jane Sheldon (56:30.932)
Yeah.

Jane Sheldon (56:34.456)
Yeah, the album is kind of dead, unfortunately.

Chad (56:39.498)
I know, and it's sad because growing up when we did, the album was the thing. You wanted to listen to the whole thing start to finish and a lot of artists really put a whole lot of thought and effort into sequencing and making things flow and you have this whole thematic journey. You don't get that anymore.

Jane Sheldon (56:59.084)
Absolutely. No, mine is vinyl. I mean, and that's a whole, that's a whole other world. But yeah, most, most artists, you know, can't afford to press most indie artists can't afford to do a run of vinyl. It's very expensive and

Chad (57:13.427)
Right.

Jane Sheldon (57:17.124)
But I think people are still committed to it and that's a fun thing. You're like, okay I'm gonna put on a side of a record right now, right? You're making a decision There's a thing with streaming where you're just like, you know, it's the scroll, right? So you were all addicted to that school We're like, okay, what's the next thing? I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that when you have a vinyl record You're just like I'm putting on a side of a record and we're gonna do this for 20 minutes or whatever it is and they're committed and I Think there's something there's something, you know important in that

Chad (57:28.192)
Right?

Chad (57:44.638)
Yeah, you're paying attention, you're focusing, even if you're not paying rapt attention, you're focusing on the music, right? You're not just skipping around and, you know, it's not just a background kind of thing, so.

Jane Sheldon (57:55.472)
Yeah, or you don't have that desire of the scroll. You don't have the finger thing where you're just like on the screen and you're, you know, what else is out there? What else is in the screen of progress? Like you've made a decision, right? You've made a decision and yeah. Now conscious listening.

Chad (57:59.744)
Right?

Chad (58:06.06)
Right.

Conscious listening, yeah. Great, well Jane, this has been great. I mean, I don't know if you have anything else you wanted to cover or anything you wanted to plug before we wrap it up.

Jane Sheldon (58:19.68)
I think so. I think everybody should go check out your meme page. Memes of the Dan, that's how we got to know each other. It's making Steely Dan memes. I look forward to seeing what the next one you have up your sleeve. Sure, it's gonna be good.

Chad (58:24.566)
Hahaha

Chad (58:31.566)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (58:37.166)
Well, thank you. Thank you for the endorsement and the love. The next one is actually... I made one a couple days ago and I was like debating whether I should post it or not, but I think I'm going to. So it's gonna be a Pretzel... It's gonna be a Pretzelogic reference.

Jane Sheldon (58:50.34)
Okay.

Jane Sheldon (58:55.342)
If I have any ideas, I'm going to send you my ideas because I think of them all the time. Thanks for having me.

Chad (58:57.87)
Please, please do. Yeah. Well, listen, it's been really great having you on the podcast, love talking to you. Absolutely. And hopefully you'll come back and visit us again when we have nine or 10 followers. Ha ha ha.

Jane Sheldon (59:07.912)
Yeah. Love it. Will do. OK, bye.

Chad (59:13.794)
Great, thanks a lot. All right, bye.