Episode 3 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:00.886)
Hello and welcome back to Aural Mess. This is our third episode. I'm joined today by recording artist Carly Shea. Hi Carly.

Carly Shea (00:02.165)
Okay.

Carly Shea (00:08.459)
Hey, how's it going?

Chad (00:10.326)
Good, thanks. Why don't you tell us a bit about yourself and we'll jump in from there.

Carly Shea (00:14.367)
Yeah, sure. So my name is Carly Shea I am a New York City based recording artist, kind of delving in between the world of pop, like R&B sort of space. And yeah, I've been releasing records pretty inconsistently, but my most recent record problems is out and I'm putting out a lot more this year. And when I'm not working on tunes, I work as a modeling agent. So that's kind of my like day life, night life in a nutshell.

Chad (00:43.426)
Ah, super cool. Yeah, I saw, I mean, obviously I got to know your music after we connected on Instagram. And I love your song, Problems, by the way. It's on my current playlist. And the video is really cool. Why don't you tell me about filming the video and sort of the concept? I mean, I kind of get it, but I want to hear it from you.

Carly Shea (00:51.607)
Thank you.

Thanks.

Carly Shea (01:02.343)
Yeah, so Problems was a song that I had recorded like quite a long time ago. So at the time I was working kind of more on, I would say like pop space. The stuff I was writing wasn't really coming for me. And I decided to kind of write more of the sound that I listened to. And Problems, I guess, was more R&B leaning. And the video was probably like the first bigger production video that I was able to do.

I had linked up with a director who wants to be anonymous, but he basically created this treatment in advance. So the whole concept, spoiler alert, is it's about the problems and the internal conflict and how they come to get you. So, you know, you can go ahead and watch it, but there's a plot twist at the end that kind of encompasses how, you know, a lot of the times you think the problems are external, but they're really internal. So.

The video we shot, a lot of it was on the low. Can't say we had permits for everything, but we lent a car and we were driving in Brooklyn and they did like a crazy job of rigging this car up with this camera. Like they had these like, it was kind of makeshift suction cups so we could film the front of the car so we could catch the action between me and the shadow driver. And then they had a gimbal in the center of the car. So.

There were some tricky shots we had to get. Most notably, there is a scene at the end where I, you know, there's a car crash, and I have to run out of the car. And this was done in one take because the way it was shot was I had to run out, the camera didn't capture me running, of course, and then I had to be in the driver's seat. So it looked as though I was both the passenger and the driver, which we did like.

takes of and it was excruciatingly cold out and I was wearing a crop top and it hurt a lot but they say art hurts so that's what happened. Yeah and yeah that was pretty much the process.

Chad (03:04.28)
Ha ha.

Chad (03:09.078)
Yeah, that's great. And I think that the mood of the video kind of fits the vibe of the song. So it's great just, you know, and I'll link it in the show notes when we're done. Yeah, absolutely. So tell me a bit about, you know, how you approach writing songs. I know you said you've been inconsistent and you've got some stuff coming in. So like, you know, when and how do you get inspired to write? And I guess, you know, what sort of things do you, what sort of things inspire you, I guess, and how do you go about getting those from?

Carly Shea (03:16.695)
Thank you. Yeah.

Carly Shea (03:25.154)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (03:39.367)
Um, I feel like it's usually when I'm sitting in my apartment at like one in the morning and I'm just like, I got a lot on my mind, you know? Or if I make myself sit down and try to write, sometimes I'll listen to tracks over and over and over again to kind of find the stem or like the notes where I'm resonating with the music and I'll kind of go from there.

Um, you know, I find it easier to kind of just write in the moment, which means that my inspiration is a bit more sporadic because I don't always feel inspired, you know, it's, it's tough. Like I'm not a full-time, full-time musician. So to be creatively inspired, I think you really need to push yourself to have different experiences and be able to bring those to your writing. So for me, like, unless I'm

going through something big, like I have to really push myself to listen to songs that will create melody and lyric ideas in my head. I mean on occasion, like, I've had specific situations and scenarios, like with problems, I was going through a bit of a, let's call it a situationship, where it ended in a way where I needed to write. It was therapy.

And I think a lot of the upcoming songs I'm going to be releasing are in that realm. It's therapeutic to write music. That's really the number one for me. I find that my music tends to be a little bit heavier and not like party club music, just because I find it hard getting into that character space of, I'm not like a big party girl, that's just not my life, but I'm a very like.

emotional heavy person, so I feel like when I can put that in a song, it can sometimes close an emotional chapter for me. I know that sounded really dramatic, but that's kind of what the process is like. And then there's the technicalities of working with different producers and the back and forth of that. I mean, I do a little bit of basic production myself, but...

Chad (05:40.261)
Hahaha

Carly Shea (05:51.743)
I've been very lucky to be connected with some great producers. Specifically, there is this wonderful, talented musician, Jedediah Alcock, based in the UK, and I've been working with him on a lot of tracks. And then, yeah, so we're going to have a lot more coming out soon.

Chad (06:10.246)
Oh, that's great. I can't wait to hear what you've got coming out. So how do you get an initial sketch of a song down? Do you just fire up your laptop and record a vocal? Or do you do like a rhythm track or do you play the instruments yourself? How does that all fit together?

Carly Shea (06:26.727)
Yeah, so I do a little bit of rough piano sketches for basic chords, but oftentimes when it's an idea that I have in my head, I'm just whipping out the voice notes. And I'm old school, so I need pen and paper. Otherwise, I can't really feel that it's, you know, that it's real. So, yeah, for an initial melody, I'll use my phone. And then if I want to really sketch out a song, you know, I'll write out pretty much a

verse, chorus, bridge, whatever, and then I'll send it over to whoever I'm working with. They'll send it back, a bit of ping pong, and then eventually we'll get the final track. Yeah, and in the studio, of course, like a lot of my music has vocal layering and harmonies, and I've been very lucky that my studio engineer is very, very skilled at suggesting the best harmonies to stack. So I think that's what kind of brings it all to life.

Chad (07:25.134)
That's great. So it's like a group effort and a little bit of a creative input from the engineering people and the producer. That's how it works. That's how it fits all together and makes great records. Yeah, fantastic.

Carly Shea (07:26.243)
and

Carly Shea (07:30.031)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, it's like a symbiotic process, I would say.

Chad (07:37.326)
Sure. So who are some of your favorite artists and you know, what are some of your favorite songs, I guess, and you know, where do you, where do you get musical inspiration from besides the life stuff, the heavy stuff? Ha ha ha.

Carly Shea (07:47.727)
Yeah, yeah, besides all that. I, well, obviously Steely Dan, I know I can talk a lot about that, but besides from Steely Dan, I would say kind of in that world, I don't know if this term is like a term that people look down upon in the Steely Dan community, but like, yacht rock? I like that style and flavor of music, so Pages is incredible if you don't know Pages, check them out, they were around that time period.

Chad (08:07.63)
Hahaha, yeah.

Carly Shea (08:15.747)
Bearden and Barnes is amazing. I love Hall & Oates, seen them many times. Jamiroquai, love, love, love Jamiroquai. That was probably the best concert I've ever been to before. And yeah, I listened to a lot of hip hop as well. I love Slum Village, Lupe Fiasco. There's just so many great artists out there. So it's kind of all over the place, I would say.

What about you? What's your kind of jam of the moment?

Chad (08:50.158)
Jam of the moment, well, believe it or not, let me pull up the playlist, because I can never think of the name of the artist. Sorry, I'm looking around my camera at the moment, because I'm...

Carly Shea (08:56.859)
worries I'm also gonna like cheat and pull this up because I have the memory of a snail um okay

Chad (09:03.234)
I'm trying a new camera setup today and I have my tripod in front of half of my screen so I can see you but I can't see anything else. So I need to kind of figure this out. Yeah, this is the third episode and I'm still getting the tech nailed down. So believe it or not, well not believe it or not, but there's a song called Kill a Shit Funk by Black Caviar.

Carly Shea (09:10.012)
Oh, I got you.

Carly Shea (09:23.504)
Oh, I've heard of Black Caviar. How would you describe the music?

Chad (09:28.186)
It's typical current hip hop, but that song is just so catchy. It really got me. There's a song called Edamame by, I'm not sure how to say it, it's BBNO Dollar Sign with Rich Brian. Yeah. It was on a show that I was watching, and I literally rewound the show three times to hear the song, because I was like, oh, I like this. And then I finally just shazamed it and was like, all right, put it on my playlist. Those are two.

Carly Shea (09:40.027)
Yeah, yeah, now I know him.

Chad (09:57.458)
I got back into some older hip hop stuff recently, so I've been playing a lot of Tribe Called Quest, a lot of Public Enemy. What else? Jam of the moment. Go into the yacht rock side of things. And by the way, the Steely Dan community can be a little bit snobbish and petty. Um. Ha ha ha.

Carly Shea (10:01.979)
Mm. Love typical quest. Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (10:14.647)
That's why I was honestly excited to be on here with you, but I was like, they're gonna eat me alive. Like. Ha ha. Okay. Cool, cool. All positive vibes. Ha ha.

Chad (10:20.746)
No, no, I won't let them, no hate here. Look, I consider, yes, all good things. I consider Steely Dan to be Yacht Rock adjacent. I don't really find them to be Yacht Rock, but they're in that same camp. And I don't know if you've ever seen the Yacht Rock, like the web series, there's like 10 episodes on YouTube. Yeah, so they kind of get lumped into that world, but they're sort of off on the side, I guess. And, you know, it's...

Carly Shea (10:31.861)
Okay.

Carly Shea (10:40.287)
I've, yeah, I've seen a little bit, yeah.

Carly Shea (10:48.223)
Yeah, it's musically so complex. Like I know it's kind of like sacrilege to stack them up against. Like I don't wanna, you know, shit talk anyone, but like Toto and Styx. But also, can I curse on here? I don't even know. Hell yeah, okay. But yeah, I know they're very complex. And yeah, but I know, I don't know. I feel like the first Steely Dan fan I met outside of my dad who introduced me to Steely Dan was definitely like the ultimate.

Chad (10:55.788)
haha

Chad (11:01.545)
You can curse all you want, yeah.

Carly Shea (11:17.939)
like Steely Dan slash generally Snob Snob, but I was introduced to so much from that person. I was like, wow, they have a right to feel this way about the music because it is just so rich and so complex. But yeah, no, it sounds like your playlist has some good jams on there.

Chad (11:37.194)
Yeah, and I'll link that in the comments as well. I'll send you a copy offline so you can take a look. What I've been doing, and I was telling my guest last week the same thing, is I've been keeping like this sort of just holding tank, I call it, of a playlist. So as I come across new songs, as I'm recommended things, as Spotify shows me new stuff or whatever, I'll just drop it in there, listen to it, and then eventually the stuff, okay.

Carly Shea (11:42.531)
Cool.

Carly Shea (11:52.54)
Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (12:01.087)
I do the same thing.

Chad (12:03.33)
And then the stuff that I like that I want to keep, I'll move into like a permanent playlist and I just have a series of those. And every time it gets to like 200, 250 songs, I'll just start a new one so they don't get too unwieldy. So there's the most random ass playlists ever. But.

Carly Shea (12:18.259)
Yeah, you have like Steelyton and then you have Britney Spears and probably like a whole mix showing up in there at the gym running fast. Yeah, no, it's good. I feel like it's interesting too, like when you make a playlist within a short time span to see how it progresses because I feel like you can kind of track like where you're at.

Chad (12:23.063)
Hahaha

Chad (12:27.33)
Totally.

Carly Shea (12:39.775)
like you know what I mean, like whatever the vibe that you were going through in that time, like if you're feeling, if you're going through like some angsty days and it's just like stained, nickelback, all this stuff, you can tell that this, you know, January whatever, 10th through 12th was a rough time. Yeah, I love playlists though, so. I also collect CDs, so that's my big thing is I am, I'm like looking at my collection right now and that's my...

Chad (12:41.291)
Yeah.

Chad (12:50.117)
Hahahaha

Chad (12:59.434)
Yeah, me too. I had... Oh, nice!

Carly Shea (13:06.835)
My bread and butter passion is I just collect a lot of CDs.

Chad (13:11.802)
I used to, I still have my CD collection. It's, it's tucked away, you know, because I digitized everything and put everything into those zipper, you know, folders years ago and stuff, but yeah, I also used to collect, but I'm definitely a playlist hoarder.

Carly Shea (13:18.401)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Carly Shea (13:28.688)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (13:28.782)
I've got maybe 120, 130 playlists on Spotify since I, yeah. And same thing, like, you know, I'll do kind of the point in time ones, like what I'm listening to currently. And then other times I'll sit and deliberately make a playlist based on a mood or, you know, an artist or whatever. So yeah, lots of them. But it's always fun to go back and look at the ones that you made, you know, a year ago, five years ago, whatever, and be like.

Carly Shea (13:32.208)
Ooh.

Carly Shea (13:44.532)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (13:48.64)
Yeah, I know.

Carly Shea (13:53.491)
Yeah, or you ever go those like time capsules where they'll suggest to you like three years ago, you were jamming out to the internet and you're like, yeah, I was. And then it kind of brings them back in your rotation. And sometimes the music can have like a new meaning to you or a new sound just based on time that's passed. So, yeah.

Chad (14:13.374)
Yeah, definitely. So the playlist that you sent me, and thank you by the way, that was a great one. You can never go overboard on a playlist as far as I'm concerned. A lot of good stuff on there. So Prefab Sprout, it's a bit of an obscure band. So how do you know them and what are some other songs I think you put Looking for Atlantis on the playlist, but what are some of your favorite songs by them?

Carly Shea (14:17.495)
Sure. I went a little overboard, honestly.

Carly Shea (14:24.095)
Okay, cool.

Carly Shea (14:29.619)
Yeah, pretty bad. Yeah.

Carly Shea (14:36.783)
Yeah, so I don't actually remember how I found them. Oh, probably. So, you know, as a giant music nerd and current music nerd, but back in high school, I would just spend hours on YouTube just getting in a rabbit hole, like suggested video after suggested video, Googling keywords, finding like just things that you would never normally find. And I think that's how I found them.

Um, yeah, I love, I mean, I'm probably more surface level fan. Like I really love Cruel. Um, looking for Atlantis is just such a feel good jam. I love that one. Um, Cruel looking for Atlantis, Appetite. Um, I know I have, Oh, All the World Loves Lovers. I feel like that one is such a beautiful, beautiful track. Like I don't know. Are there a lot of covers of Prefab?

Chad (15:23.758)
Oh yeah.

Carly Shea (15:30.599)
songs. Like I don't really know of any prefab covers by you know notable artists. Yeah, which is kind of weird because I feel like their music even though it's a bit off kilter like it's generally pretty accessible I would say and poppy. But what about you? How did you find prefab and what's your prefab jams?

Chad (15:34.43)
No, I haven't heard a lot actually. No.

Chad (15:53.45)
Wow, so how did I find Prefab? Set the time machine for 1990. Yeah, a friend of mine, a couple of friends of mine that were, I grew up in Atlantic City in South Jersey and there were few people that had come in from Ireland for the summer that I met and was friendly with and the one guy, his name was Donal, and he was just like...

Carly Shea (15:58.523)
Okay, got it.

Carly Shea (16:08.152)
Okay.

Chad (16:21.938)
He was so into all kinds of music and just turned me on to so many good bands. So, you know, he would lend me cassettes of Prefab Sprout, The Laws. Can't remember. Yeah. Do you know the song There She Goes?

Carly Shea (16:30.339)
Hmm, the lies.

Carly Shea (16:36.519)
Oh, no, maybe I don't. Oh yeah, of course, wait, that's, yeah, yeah. Sixpence, none the rich, is that? Yeah, of course I know that song. What up? Jeez. Oh, I'm putting on my...

Chad (16:40.295)
Six

Chad (16:44.274)
Yep, that's the cover, right? So the Laws is the original version, and that album, they only had one album. It was one of those brilliant bands that just came out with this masterpiece and then kind of just went away. So.

Carly Shea (16:57.075)
interesting. I'm like putting that down so I have that cool.

Chad (17:01.522)
Yeah, for sure. I like the original better than the cover. I know a lot of people would disagree. Yeah, so that was another band. But Prefab was one of the ones he turned me onto. The first couple of albums, he made me copies of their cassettes and stuff. I just became obsessed with them. I followed their new releases through the next few years. I think 2001, 2003 was the last thing they put out.

Carly Shea (17:07.028)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (17:16.567)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (17:26.714)
Mm, okay.

Chad (17:27.752)
My favorite Prefab Sprout song is hands down Bonnie off of Steve McQueen.

Carly Shea (17:32.243)
Mm. I feel like I've heard that one. Yeah. And I mean, when did they are they're not still active? Are they? No. Oh,

Chad (17:40.642)
No, no, Patty McEloon has the guy who basically writes all the music and he was the lead singer. He had some sort of vision problem and you know he's basically almost blind I think and he's got some other stuff going on health-wise so I think he you know he recorded kind of like a solo album even though he put it out under the beef head sprout name and it's called I Troll the Megahertz and it's sort of just an atmospheric album mostly instrumental it's gorgeous but

Carly Shea (17:50.474)
Right.

Ugh.

Carly Shea (18:03.437)
Hmm.

Chad (18:09.73)
That was the last thing he did. And that was, I think, you know, early 2000s maybe.

Carly Shea (18:13.671)
Oh wow, okay. I always wonder when that happens when you have an artist and they've released a lot of stuff and then they just kind of taper off. Like I was, do you know Remy Shand at all?

Chad (18:25.917)
Sounds familiar.

Carly Shea (18:27.163)
Yeah, so he was, I had come across one of his tracks like a long time ago. He had only released one album, and incredible album. It was released through Motown. I want to say, can I cheat? I think it was like 2003. Let me see. Remy Shand album. It was so good. 2002, I was close. So yeah, Canadian singer, really, really incredible.

Chad (18:41.913)
Sure.

Carly Shea (18:55.563)
Rocksteady has just been on heavy rotation. And when you try to figure out what happened after that release, there's nothing. There's no information as to where he went, why he disappeared. You'll get some niche YouTube channels trying to uncover where did Remy Shand go? But it's just always so bizarre when, I don't know, when there's a masterpiece. And I guess it's all too common. And that's part of why I love crate digging is because a lot of the stuff

that I find is not digitized. And I get the jackets and I get to read the stories and the credits. And then when you look it up, it's like there's no trace and it feels like this mystery I wanna uncover. And it's like a little bittersweet, you know?

Chad (19:41.258)
Yeah, oh, it's definitely a bittersweet, but it's so fun discovering something and feeling like you're part of the secret club of like, you know, maybe the hundred people in the world that have ever heard this album. And, and like you said, like sort of looking it up and trying to see if you can trace what happened or where the artist went. And a lot of times it's just a dead end, but it's like a detective hunt, you know?

Carly Shea (19:47.744)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (20:00.167)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And sometimes they like evolve, like with pages. I think they ended up turning into Mr. And I would have never guessed because like no hate on Mr. fans, but I really don't like Mr. But I love pages and I'm like, why was that not more commercially successful than Mr. Mr.? I guess we'll never know. Yeah, but there's some really great finds out there for sure.

Chad (20:07.69)
Yep.

Chad (20:21.664)
Yeah.

Chad (20:26.99)
So what are some of your favorite, I know we said we talk about New York later, but I know you're in New York City and I'm there a few days a week for work, but I don't get to hang out in the cities nearly as much as I'd like to. But what are some good places to go? Like where do you find records? And what are your favorite little hole in the wall record shops?

Carly Shea (20:32.02)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (20:44.311)
So it's really weird because I don't really get my records as much here as I do, or my CDs as much as I do when I travel, because I kind of like to tie getting CDs to wherever I visit. But I know, I'm going to butcher this, this is so embarrassing, but there's a store in the West, yeah it is the West Village, it's got a red awning, this is so embarrassing I can't remember the name, I think it's like Village CDs and-

something or other. Academy Records is really cool as well if you've been to Academy. I feel like The Strand isn't a cool answer, but sometimes I'll go to The Strand in Union Square, which if you don't know what The Strand is, it's like a massive bookstore. It is local, so you know, support local. But yeah, that's where I'll get my CDs. And then honestly, like, sometimes I'll just go into a thrift store. Like the other day I was hanging out with my friend in Queens and...

We were just curious, we hopped into, I think it was like a Goodwill or something, she was just like looking around. And there's some incredible CD finds, like if you're willing to look through bins of potentially hazardous CD covers, you will potentially find like a great CD. So I'd say some of my stuff is from there as well. But I love, like I was just in LA and I get a lot of CDs from Amoeba. Like if you have, have you been to Amoeba in LA?

Chad (22:10.35)
Mm-hmm. No, but I've heard of them.

Carly Shea (22:13.139)
Yeah, Amoeba is like top tier. Like it's, it's just like the amount of inventory they have and the staff is just so knowledgeable, so I love going to Amoeba and, um, yeah, I'd say like combo thrifting and all that stuff. So do you collect records or you, you just, yeah.

Chad (22:32.126)
I just started, so I'm old enough that I lived through the first vinyl era. And all of my early music was all on vinyl as a kid, and even into my tween years, I guess, and before everything became CDs. But I...

Carly Shea (22:38.376)
Mm-hmm. He-he.

Carly Shea (22:47.188)
Yeah.

Chad (22:48.786)
had sort of been avoiding the vinyl thing just because I was like, you know, what am I gonna do? And I don't have a turntable. I don't even have a proper stereo system. But then the bug kind of hit me and some bands that I really love started to do reissues on vinyl that, you know, things that probably hadn't been available and may not be available again. So I was like, okay, it's time, you know. The first one that I purchased was, there's a Dutch alternative band called Betty Cervert. I don't know if you're familiar.

Carly Shea (22:56.141)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (23:03.063)
Mmm.

Carly Shea (23:08.93)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (23:15.519)
None have not heard of them, no. Please, yeah.

Chad (23:17.414)
I will have to link you up with some of their stuff or throw it on the playlist. Yeah, they're fabulous. They came out in very early 90s and I think they were on sub pop. So they were sort of in the same vein as like Pixies, Buffalo Tom, like that kind of, you know, circle of bands that were all from.

It's weird, like all the other bands were kind of from the Boston area, but then they were from the Netherlands and they just ended up coming over here and getting signed and you know, whatever. So they re-released their first album on orange vinyl and it came with a bonus seven inch with like a remix or an alternate take of one of their songs kind of bundled in. So I was like, I'd have to get it. So I did.

Carly Shea (23:44.447)
Interesting.

Carly Shea (23:57.351)
Yeah. How was the bonus track? Was it everything you wanted and more? Like you said it was a bonus track. Oh my gosh. You got to play it after, you know, after the show. That's super cool. That's the number one thing is I guess you can't play without the turntable. Yeah. How are you with equipment? With finding equipment, like are you very specific? Like how do you decide what is going to be the best console for you and the best equipment?

Chad (24:01.87)
I haven't had a chance to hear it yet.

Chad (24:06.758)
Yeah, well I need to get the turntable going. That's the problem is I just, I don't. Yes. So that's gonna come soon. And now that I have some vinyl.

Chad (24:26.154)
Um, great question. There's a couple of YouTube channels that I've been watching. There's, um, I think the one guy's channel is called Cheap Audio Man.

Carly Shea (24:34.467)
Cheap audio, man, okay.

Chad (24:35.886)
Yeah, and he goes through all the different components and speakers and turntables and all the amplifiers and stuff and just sort of, you know, and he does these great videos where it's like, okay, best system under 500 bucks, best system under 1000 bucks kind of thing. And he'll go through and tell you the pros and cons of all these different things. So I think that's what I'm going to end up doing. I'm probably just going to build an inexpensive.

Carly Shea (24:43.136)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (24:50.284)
Okay.

Chad (24:58.602)
you know, separate stack, you know, like a, just a small amp and a, and a DAC. And, you know, I want to spend more money on the turntable and the speakers. I think that's where you get the most bang for the buck in terms of sound quality. Um, I just have to, you know, like I said, I was just sort of figuring out my setup for today again. And, you know, I, I'm going back and forth. Well, thanks.

Carly Shea (25:01.449)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (25:10.611)
Yeah, definitely.

Carly Shea (25:16.447)
No, it looks great. I mean, you know, yeah, I feel like it's fine. Like, I don't know, in an apartment in New York City, I was just like, it's very hard to find, like, space that makes sense. Like it is, it is not living super big out here. So limited, limited space. Yeah.

Chad (25:26.44)
Ha ha

Chad (25:36.179)
Right. No, I hear that. So yeah, I just have to rearrange my office slash, you know, now podcast studio a little bit and make room for the audio stuff. I'll do that pretty soon. So then I picked up, there's another band from the 90s that I love called Marvelous Three.

Carly Shea (25:43.98)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (25:54.295)
That sounds very familiar, but I don't know a specific song from them. What would you describe the mess?

Chad (25:59.926)
They had one huge hit, I think it was 97 or 98 or 99 even, and it was called Freak of the Week. So another one you should check out. It's Butch Walker. Do you know Butch Walker at all? Okay. It was basically his band. It's a trio and Butch went on to have a solo career and he just became like this really sought after producer. He worked with Avril Lavigne.

Carly Shea (26:09.087)
Okay, yeah, I've got some homework, yeah. Butch Walker, no I don't.

Carly Shea (26:26.037)
Oh.

Chad (26:27.598)
I can't think of the other couple bands that he worked with, but he did a lot of sort of behind the scenes production over the years, but Marvelous 3 finally got back together after like a 20 something year hiatus and they put a new album out and it's just great. So I ordered the reissue of the first album, it's really the second album, but it was the first commercial release really.

Carly Shea (26:36.83)
oooo

Chad (26:51.434)
new album on vinyl as well. And then of course when the Seelie Dan stuff started coming out again last year, I got Asia and Galcho and I got the Northeast Corridor album because it was on sale for like 15 bucks or something so I was like sure I'll pick that up too.

Carly Shea (26:52.963)
So nice.

Carly Shea (26:57.32)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (27:05.647)
so cool. I was debating like wearing my Asia sweatshirt which I got most recently on the Steely and Eagles tour but it would have looked too... they didn't have the right sizes, I only was left with a large so... but it's very comfy. Yeah, yeah, it's a good one. Well I've seen Steely Dan probably not like as many times as I'd like but I think it's been like three... three times?

Chad (27:21.324)
Nice. Where did you see them?

Carly Shea (27:32.867)
I saw them, or maybe four times, I think twice at the Beacon, which is pretty close to where I am. And it's a pretty good venue, I'd say. I saw them once in like, God, I can't remember the name of the town, but I do remember like having to take like, some kind of transit up there. It was like upstate New York, very tiny theater, like very, very small theater. This was maybe like two years back.

Um, and gosh, well, my memory is like so bad, but it was, you know what I mean, right? And they, yeah. And the opener I had seen, um, rather recently at Blue Note, whose name I cannot remember as well, but it was like a pianist and it was very nice. And most recently I saw them on the tour with the Eagles, which honestly was a little disheartening, not because of, did you go to that show?

Chad (28:02.986)
I know what you're talking about. I can't think of the name, but yeah, I know where it is, yeah.

Carly Shea (28:28.387)
that yeah, it wasn't of course, because it was Steely Dan, but it was because first off, I'm like, why are they opening? You know, I'm like, it made me sad that they were not headlining and I was like putting myself in like, tall Fagin shoes and was like, what must he be feeling and all this stuff. And then I just, I don't know the crowd.

Chad (28:28.62)
No.

Carly Shea (28:50.695)
Nobody was standing up. Like I was just me, it was me and like one guy with a hot dog, a couple of rows next to me, just like up there, just like, you know, a jammin and, um, yeah, and it was a dead crowd and I kept turning around and it was a weird feeling. I mean, you know, I guess you don't need a big crowd to appreciate and bring to life a concert, but it was just probably like my least favorite.

Chad (28:58.094)
Ha ha ha.

Carly Shea (29:17.387)
Steely Dan concert and the Eagles are great too. I'm not a big Eagles fan, but I appreciated that as well. Like I didn't go for the Eagles, I went for Steely Dan.

Chad (29:27.742)
Yeah, sure. And I get it. I mean, I think a lot of Steely Dan's fans are just getting old. So I feel like they want to sit down for the couple hours and, you know, not get up and dance and stuff. So I kind of get it. But yeah, I got the same review from a few of the people that went to the Eagle stuff and just said, you know, it was fine. You know, they played the hits for 45 minutes or whatever. And, you know, it was just kind of low energy, but it was still good. It was still Steely Dan, right? So.

Carly Shea (29:34.172)
Yeah, that's fair.

Carly Shea (29:40.579)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (29:45.576)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (29:54.331)
Yeah, yeah, it was still them. It was just, yeah, I don't know. It's also, this is kind of weird to say because I'm sure they had the same, you know, rigging setup as the Eagles, but just the way that the sound was translating to me didn't, it didn't sound as good as, for example, in the Beacon. It was just kind of like, I don't want to say tinny, but everything did feel very like...

I don't know how to describe it, it just didn't sound as present as I would have liked it to have been, which is no fault of Steely Dan's own, but yeah, I'm hoping they'll come back again. It seems like they'll never stop touring, do you think they'll ever throw in the towel?

Chad (30:38.166)
I don't know, I mean, you know, there was a little bit of a health scare from Donald Fagen a couple months ago, but I think he's fine now. They said he was in the hospital for some unspecified illness, but I guess he's okay. And you know, he's back on the road, but I really hope he has at least one more full Celie Dantor in him because, you know, I chose not to go see him with the Eagles. I'm kind of kicking myself. I really wish I did now, but.

Carly Shea (30:46.826)
Mm.

Carly Shea (30:49.909)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (30:54.985)
Yeah.

Chad (31:01.93)
You know, I'm a little bit of a music snob. I'm not a big live music person because, you know, part of the reason that you mentioned, like sometimes the sound quality is not just great. And I would have really wanted to have really good seats if I was gonna go see them. And as you know, they were like super expensive. I mean, you know, nose bleeds were like 300 bucks.

Carly Shea (31:10.572)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (31:17.835)
They were so, I mean like, yeah, it costs like an arm and a leg, but I was down pretty close without my arm and leg just to, you know, see them. But it was expensive, yeah.

Chad (31:28.047)
Yeah, for sure. So I just, you know, and did you see him at the garden? Is that where you went? Okay, yeah. Yeah, the sound in the garden, I mean, it's I've been there a bunch of times and it's never great. I saw Billy Joel there a few times. Yeah, and as fantastic as he is, and as great as his band is, the sound quality just wasn't fabulous. You know, it was, it was, it was pretty good.

Carly Shea (31:32.563)
Yeah, yeah, I did. It's not great. Who've you seen at the garden? Who've you seen there?

Carly Shea (31:42.185)
Yeah, I saw once.

Carly Shea (31:50.754)
Yeah.

Chad (31:53.566)
So, you know, there's that. But yeah, I really hope that they come around and see LeDan and do one more tour with just them. You know, and really, I never got to see them live when, well, I've never seen them live period, but you know, I'm really sad that I didn't get to go when Walter was still alive. So I feel like it's just not the same, you know?

Carly Shea (32:00.789)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (32:06.059)
When Walter, Vickery, yeah.

Carly Shea (32:11.991)
Did you ever get, I guess from like fellow, I assume you have like a Steely Dan friendship fan community, but of your friends who've seen them when Walter was alive and have seen them now, what are the, like how do they describe the performance was different? I mean, what was the biggest takeaway from them, would you say? Yeah.

Chad (32:18.929)
Yes.

Chad (32:36.394)
I think it's Walter's presence. He used to just be more, Fagen doesn't really talk to the crowd. He'll do a little bit of pattern between songs here and there, but Walter would be the one introducing the band and he would just do like the sort of, they called them the Hay 19 raps, right? So during the bridge section in Hay 19, he would just sort of.

Carly Shea (32:41.845)
Ahem.

Chad (32:57.302)
go off on these spoken tangents for like, you know, five, 10 minutes and they were hilarious a lot of times. And sometimes they were just completely, you know, out in the middle of the field, but still funny, you know, it's still great. So I think it was just, he brought maybe a little more of the showmanship and I think he was always the more outspoken, you know, or stage presence one in the band in the later years. So I think that's the big difference.

Carly Shea (33:05.844)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (33:14.577)
Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (33:18.503)
Okay, yeah, interesting, because I guess I need to do a little more research. Like I have the songs that I'm very passionate about, but when I look at the history, like there's clearly a very storied history with them. And I guess I didn't know too much about Walter, because I guess my experience of having seen them live and having really gotten into them was, you know, mostly focused on Donald Fagen. But yeah, it seems like they were two peas in a pod. So.

Chad (33:47.47)
Oh yeah, they said that they were like one brain, you know, they just literally had like almost like an unspoken language between the two of them and they would just crack each other up and nobody else would know what they were talking about, you know, that sort of thing. So that's kind of funny. So what are the Steely Dan songs that you're passionate about since you mentioned that?

Carly Shea (33:48.288)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (33:54.773)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (33:58.927)
Right, right. No, that's awesome.

Carly Shea (34:04.767)
Well, my favorite is I love Deacon Blues. I think it's just such an epic song. Like it's just so beautiful. The sax solo, I guess, unless there's some kind of like secret Bible that describes what every Steely Dan song means. Like I don't truly know the deepest meaning of all these songs, but I feel like every time I listen, like

It's like a roller coaster. I'm just going through the different melodic intervals and taking away different things. Love that one. I really love Glamour Profession. It feels kind of like I'm in a Pink Panther movie. Does that make sense? I'll walk down the street sometimes and I'm just like, oh yeah. It really does feel like you're the lead in a 1960s sleuth film. I love that. Man, I'm on the spot. I love Asia.

Chad (34:43.542)
Yes, yes, absolutely.

Carly Shea (34:57.727)
of course, Peg is really good. Honestly, man, Hey 19 is really good, Dirty Work. Wow, there's just so many. And then like, I actually love, and I'm curious to see like what kind of scoop, because I feel like I'm treating this also as like a learning process, since you know so much about Steely Dan. Their album that had the Fez and Don't Take Me Alive, to me that sounds very...

Like a bit of a shift towards more of like a rock centric, like hard rock centric album. What's the backstory behind why that album's kind of lends more towards that, I don't want to use the term grungy, but like more rock oriented sound.

Chad (35:43.614)
Yeah, it was kind of like their guitar album, right? I mean, there's a lot of guitar heavy songs. I mean, I think the funny thing is they started out as sort of a rock band, like they were sort of a tighter unit, they had.

Carly Shea (35:47.102)
Yeah.

Chad (35:55.114)
you know, band members, right? So it was Skunk Baxter on guitar, it was Denny Diaz on guitar, it was Jim Hodder on drums, and they were like any other band. It was a five piece and they all sort of had, you know, I think Donald and Walter wrote all the songs and sort of dictated how things went in terms of...

Carly Shea (36:05.685)
Mm.

Chad (36:13.75)
arrangements and things in the studio, but I think the other guys had more input But they played as a band and you know in the early days they were actually playing out live a lot you know they were touring and

Carly Shea (36:24.03)
Mm.

Chad (36:27.25)
they had sort of that rock band aesthetic, you know, and that rock band ethic, if you will. But then I think they realized over time that, you know, some of the songs they wanted to do were a little bit more complex and just needed sort of specialist attention, right? So they started bringing in studio musicians to do solos and play, you know, extra parts and, you know, Walter and Donald is

Carly Shea (36:30.197)
Yeah.

Chad (36:51.99)
fantastic musicians as they both are in terms of playing instruments. They were very like, well, I can't play as well as so-and-so. So if he can play this part better than I can, then why not let him do it? Right. I don't care if I don't play on my own record, right. Which is kind of funny.

Carly Shea (37:02.583)
Yeah.

Chad (37:06.886)
So they kind of started going in this direction of using studio guys, right? So all the way through the first two albums, it was, it was the band. Pretzel logic. They started to bring in some, some outside people. Um, they largely replaced Jim Hodder on drums with Jim Gordon, who was a, you know, well-known studio ace. Um, and then going into Katie Lye, they really started to lean harder on the jazz stuff and then it was a little more atmospheric and less rock focused and nobody.

Carly Shea (37:32.443)
Yeah, I didn't really click with Katie Light as much, just like throwing that out. I don't know why. Yeah, I have that CD, but it was not my, yeah, favorite.

Chad (37:36.055)
Really?

Chad (37:41.866)
A lot of people have a hard time with that album, I think, in terms of, you know, it just doesn't connect for them for some reason. It's funny, that was one of the first albums that I fell in love with, the album of Steely Dan, yeah. And I still love it, it's still one of my favorites.

Carly Shea (37:51.691)
Really? Wow.

Carly Shea (37:56.787)
After you visited, I guess, I mean, do you like it as a cohesive album or there are just tracks on there that stand out more to you than?

Chad (38:03.986)
it as a cohesive album. I think Dr. Wu is one of my favorite Steely Dan songs ever. Again, epic, fantastic sax solo and it just tells a great story. Probably about drugs. Definitely about drugs, like so many of their songs. And then, you know, after that, I think...

Carly Shea (38:07.372)
Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (38:19.662)
Yeah.

Chad (38:26.898)
You know, they kind of got lukewarm reception from the music critics in the press and everything else. And then I think they just said, all right, well, let's just try something different. So by the time Royal Scam came around, it feels like, you know, they just sort of went off in a different direction. So they brought in it was the first, I don't know, was it the first time they used Chuck Rainey on bass? But I'm pretty sure that was the first Bernard Purdy.

Carly Shea (38:36.521)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (38:47.462)
session. So you've got these two fantastic R&B musicians that played on everything in the 60s and 70s, right? They brought them in to do a lot of the rhythm section work. So you get this just top-notch groove in so many of these songs on Royal Scam.

you get Larry Carlton coming in and playing guitar on Don't Take Me Alive and Kid Charlemagne. So, and he was a jazz guy, but he definitely has a harder edge on this album. So it's like they started to blend that jazz. I don't want to say fusion because, you know, I think they hated that term and I don't like it either, but right, exactly. But I think that's where this whole thing kind of started. And it's just a dark album, you know, I mean, like all the different songs and, and

Carly Shea (39:23.787)
Yeah, that's currently in an elevator. Yeah.

Carly Shea (39:34.176)
Yeah.

Chad (39:37.294)
I mean, I keep saying that about a lot of my songs. I was just talking about Gaucho a couple of days ago and then telling somebody it's like, it's their darkest album. But you know, Royal Scams right up there. And I think it was, yeah, well, it was post Vietnam, right? It was the mid to late seventies were coming in and came out, I think, 76, right? So I think they were just very disillusioned with the world and with America and the American dream and all that. So I think those songs really kind of paint that picture.

Carly Shea (39:39.98)
Hehehe

Carly Shea (39:47.347)
Yeah, that feels super, super dark to me.

Carly Shea (40:06.439)
Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. I mean, I definitely need to dig into more of the tracks on that album, because I feel like I primarily will listen to the Fez and Don't Take Me Live. But yeah, it does feel notably heavier than their others. So yeah. And then what's like an underrated Dan album you would recommend to someone who needs to further dig into their work?

Chad (40:32.186)
Oh wow, I think I think gaucho gets a lot of unnecessary hate and I think the reason why is because it's so different from what came before it. Yeah.

Carly Shea (40:40.983)
Glamour proficiency is on gaucho, right? Yeah. Yeah, why- and Babylon Sisters I think as well. Why don't people like that?

Chad (40:50.694)
I think it's because Walter was not maybe as involved as he had been, and it was recorded under a lot of stressful conditions. And people find it to be sterile where Asia is just this spacious, gorgeous, ethereal album all the way through. Gaucho went into this like sort of bubble, right, of its own.

Carly Shea (41:08.821)
Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Chad (41:17.486)
I think the production's a little bit different. Everything's super tight, super clean. They use Wendel, the drum machine.

Carly Shea (41:21.847)
Would you say it's poppier almost? Like a little, it's a little poppy in a way, right? Like a little bit.

Chad (41:26.73)
Yeah, I think so. I mean, Hey 19 is, you know, one of my least favorite Steely Dan songs and only because I've heard it so many times and because, you know...

Carly Shea (41:33.551)
Yeah, yeah, you're in the supermarket. I, yeah, for me, that's like Ricky, don't lose. Or sorry. Yeah. Why am I, my brain is like, you know what I mean? Um, yeah, there are definitely songs where you're like, yeah, can't do this because it plays so regularly or commercial. Yeah.

Chad (41:41.93)
Yeah, gotcha.

Chad (41:48.958)
Yeah, so I think it was poppy and I think, you know, songs like Glamour Profession and Time Out of Mine, like they're so peppy and, oh, it's so good. Yeah, I think the, I mean, like a lot of people, the bridge in that song is just one of my favorite pieces of music ever written. It's just crazy. They're middle eight sections or they're bridges because they go so much longer than eight bars a lot of times.

Carly Shea (41:55.451)
Yeah, time out of mind is so good. Yeah, I like that one a lot.

Carly Shea (42:08.04)
Yeah.

Chad (42:16.05)
could be songs like in and of themselves, some of them, like they just go off on these like musical tangents that kind of like, you know, could be their own piece of music. It's so great. But I don't know, I mean, I think a lot of people just don't like Gaucho because it just doesn't really sound like all the other Steely Dan stuff that came right before it, you know, but I love it. It's one of my favorite albums by them.

Carly Shea (42:18.729)
Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (42:23.691)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (42:35.718)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I also love the cover art of that album as well. I'm a big like cover art fan and design fan, and it's just, yeah, I think it's a really, really pretty cover as well.

Chad (42:42.628)
Mm.

Chad (42:47.474)
Yeah, it's great. I would love to go see the... it's from a painting that's somewhere on a wall in like a courtyard or something in Argentina, yeah.

Carly Shea (42:53.631)
Oh, oh I didn't know that. Wow, okay, huh. Yeah, no, it's really quite nice. So, yeah, definitely. Um, I guess with, are there any like albums where you just like, were you personally, or like I do not like this album? I don't, I would not. They could just throw it out of the discography, just throw it away.

Chad (43:00.138)
Yeah, that's great.

Chad (43:17.038)
Well, if I had to throw out one, it would be two against nature. I'm going to get a lot of hate from the Sealy Banners for saying that. I'm a ride or die when it comes to a lot of bands, but with other bands, there are albums that I just don't like and I won't listen to that much. And maybe there's one or two good songs on it. And I just sort of discount the rest. And, you know, Steely Dan's discography is so small. Right. I mean, there's the seven original albums, there's the two reunion albums. And that's it. And, you know, the.

Carly Shea (43:31.735)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (43:38.177)
Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (43:42.987)
Yeah.

Chad (43:43.49)
There's never gonna be another Steely Dan album, obviously. So like, that's all we have to work with. So I try to give the two albums that came out after the reunion a lot more love than I used to, but I still just don't intentionally put them on to listen to sometimes. Like, I'll have to make myself listen to some of the songs on there.

Carly Shea (44:03.367)
Yeah, to be able to get through them. Got it.

Chad (44:11.394)
sure.

Carly Shea (44:14.787)
I think I mentioned at the start I'm like feeling a little like sick, but I'm okay.

Chad (44:21.134)
All right, as long as you're okay to keep going. Good, okay. So yeah, the other Steely Dan song that I would recommend since you started to dip your toe into Royal Scam is I think one of my favorite Steely Dan songs and those change like every week, but right now is Green Earrings. Just, yeah.

Carly Shea (44:23.22)
Yeah, I'm good.

Carly Shea (44:32.416)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (44:40.223)
Yeah, Green, yeah, Greener Rings, I've delved into some of the tracks, yeah. Or Greener Rings is a song, Jesus, wait, yeah. Yeah. I'm like cheating right now. This is probably the most embarrassing Steely Dan interview ever. This is like the amateur hour version here, cause okay, I'm on. Yeah, okay. Yes. The one I really don't know on here is Everything You Did.

Chad (44:45.41)
Good. Yeah, it's one of the songs on Royal Scam, yeah.

Chad (44:57.334)
Not at all.

Carly Shea (45:10.111)
Don't know that. Signed in the stranger, don't know. You know Caleb Charlemagne and don't take me live as I've heard green earrings, Haitian divorce, yes. In royal skin.

Chad (45:21.942)
Sign In Stranger and everything you did, definitely cue those up next because fantastic song. Sign In Stranger is just another great song. The piano playing on that, it's Paul Griffin. He's fantastic. And everything you did is just, you know, I love that just as many people do for the line. Turn up the eagles, the neighbors are listening.

Carly Shea (45:27.572)
Okay, cool.

Carly Shea (45:44.333)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (45:46.291)
Which apparently was, you know, Walter wrote that because I guess, you know, they were having an argument and his girlfriend was playing the Eagles and You know, yeah pretty funny

Carly Shea (45:54.755)
Yeah, yeah. Huh. Yeah, a lot of gems. And to people with the lyrics, because they're so complex, I've gone online and I feel like I've found a wiki where people try to kind of dissect what the lyrics mean. Do you feel like Steely Dan songs have definitive meanings that they wrote with a specific intention in mind, or do you feel like they're kind of ambiguous and can mean different things?

Chad (46:23.634)
I think it's a blend of both. I think there were definitely songs that were written for specific situations or with specific events or incidents. But I think there's a lot that's just really, they wrote the words to kind of fit the music, right? I feel like they always started with the music first and sort of added lyrics later.

Carly Shea (46:25.303)
Yeah.

Carly Shea (46:38.935)
Mm-mm.

Chad (46:42.602)
Plus, you know, a lot of times from just from reading interviews with the two of them from over the years, they said that a lot of times, you know, Donald would come in with lyrics half written and Walter would finish them or, you know, Walter would have a line, but, you know.

Donald would suggest a different word for the last word of the line and they would change it, right? So I feel like there's so much collaborative stuff going on that it wasn't just one person's point of view all the time. But if you listen to them talk about trying to uncover the meanings, they give you nothing. A lot of times they'll just say, it's up to the listener. It's like, we don't want to tell you what to think. Make your own conclusions from what you hear.

Carly Shea (47:00.617)
Mm-hmm.

Carly Shea (47:05.884)
Yeah, yeah.

Carly Shea (47:20.531)
Yeah, got it. No, that's positive though, because I feel like there are sometimes there are artists who specifically want their vision of whatever the music was written as originally to be translated to the listeners. And I think sometimes like they don't give listeners freedom. But that's cool that they're open to letting people interpret the work in their own ways. Yeah, for sure.

Chad (47:34.19)
Yeah.

Chad (47:42.551)
Yeah, definitely.

Chad (47:46.998)
All right, well, anything else you wanted to cover? I know we're getting to about 48 minutes, and I like to keep these under an hour, but if there's any other topic, we can definitely keep.

Carly Shea (47:54.765)
No, I think, yeah, I'm sorry for just being a little off-kilter today. I was a bit sick and I think I did not prepare well enough, but I appreciate having spoken with you. I feel so bad. No, I love, I feel like this has inspired me to dig deeper into the dam and also just like

Chad (48:04.17)
No, not at all. You've been great.

Carly Shea (48:15.323)
music from that time period in general. I need to check out those songs that you mentioned on that playlist so please send them my way, the different bands. Yeah, otherwise no, I'm grateful for being on the podcast and thank you so much for having me.

Chad (48:22.782)
I will. Yeah, absolutely.

Chad (48:30.314)
Yeah, well thanks for coming on and you've been great. All right, well thank you Carly and just hang on for a second. I'm gonna stop recording, but then I just need you to hang on for two seconds after. All right, great, thank you.

Carly Shea (48:32.855)
Thank you. All right. Yeah.

Carly Shea (48:40.851)
Yeah, sure, sure. Thanks.