Episode 29 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:01.08)
Greetings and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. After a month long end of summer hiatus, I just took some time and stepped away from the music thing and, you know, really figured out what I wanted to do next. And, got a text message about a week ago from Cal Meadows. Hi Cal. Cal, as you remember from a previous episode is my lovely niece. And they texted me and said, Hey, are we still doing that Led Zeppelin episode? And I was like, hell yes, we are. So here we are.

Cal Meadows (00:17.164)
Bye.

Cal Meadows (00:28.438)
and this episode was born and I said free marketing, we're gonna call it the Zepisode. I wish we had money to commission a little sound bite for that. The Zepisode.

Chad (00:32.641)
That's right.

Chad (00:37.119)
I'll call Jimmy Page, you get him on the phone and, you know, have him write a little riff, you know, do a theme song. Yeah, good. So as you, the audience can obviously surmise, we're going to talk about Led Zeppelin and specifically, you know, a little bit of background, you know, I guess our personal feelings and experiences and thoughts on Zeppelin as a band. And we're going to go through every album and talk about our favorite tracks.

Cal Meadows (00:39.062)
Yeah, get him up.

Absolutely.

Cal Meadows (01:01.43)
Yep, it'll like the arrows tour but for Led Zeppelin.

Chad (01:03.695)
Exactly. So I know the answer to this, but for the audience's sake, how did you first get into Led Zeppelin? How did you discover them and what makes you keep listening to them?

Cal Meadows (01:17.1)
So I'm very fortunate to have been raised by parents who were kind of coming of age in the 60s and 70s. know, Chad's sister, my mother, Stacey, shout out.

And also my father have introduced me to some fabulous music from the 60s and beyond and their time as radio broadcasters and fans of music themselves and Led Zeppelin just happened to be in the milieu of that because really as we'll talk about later, how could they not be? So much in the middle of everything that was going on around the 60s, 70s and they had quite a long career for a rock band going all the way to 1980 before one of their members died. there's so little of the music that I grew up with.

that wasn't from that era that wasn't touched by Zeppelin in some way. Even Lady Gaga cites them as an influence, which I think is fascinating. But just so much of it's been touched by that. Heard him on the radio a lot, listening to classic rock stations growing up. Took a lot of time to do some research on my own when it came to like what good rock music was like and had a lot of friends who were also kind of raised by parents in the slightly older age range for my age. And got to talk to them a lot about it and we traded song suggestions and

Chad (02:06.222)
Huh. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (02:29.118)
and 29, just his up head still.

Chad (02:32.558)
Nice.

Cal Meadows (02:33.482)
I guess what keeps me going is so much, we'll talk about this extensively later, I'm sure, about what their influences are. This keeps me going is it's everything from like Muddy Waters to like, I think there's pretty heavy influence from Cream in their music. And it's just like, you can really just trace a lineage. So many things impact them and they impact so many things. And sometimes I'm just like, this feels like a Led Zeppelin riff. Maybe I should go listen to some Zeppelin. Two hours later, I've listened to Houses of the Holy Twice. So.

Chad (02:55.865)
Hahaha

Chad (03:01.019)
There you go. Yeah, yeah. mean, and totally agree. And you know, I think my some of my early exposure to zeppelin was also through my sister, your mother, shout out Stacey. And, you know, Led Zeppelin four, for some reason, and some of Led Zeppelin three, I think were some of the standouts that I remember being younger, but then, you know, getting into high school and listen, you know, getting in

Involved with like classic rock and then moving on to college and meeting other people who played guitar and like really into like heavy stuff and Everybody had led zeppelin albums, right? Like almost no matter what kind of music you listen to with some sort of rock influences pop influence Whatever it was everybody like zeppelin, right? mean the Beastie Boys sampled zeppelin

Cal Meadows (03:44.536)
extensively.

Chad (03:47.729)
So I think, you know, that's where I got a little more exposed, listened to some of the deeper cuts, you know, not just the stuff that was on classic rock radio and whatever. And here I am at 52, still listening and still finding things to like, and, you know, always hearing influences when I listen to them, so.

Cal Meadows (04:07.188)
Yeah, isn't it wild how you're just like, this sounds like Zeppelin. Him and Paula sounds like Zeppelin. You know, Turner sounds like...

Chad (04:11.097)
you

hahahaha

Chad (04:18.467)
Yeah, I know the list is like endless. the funny thing is hearing, you know, I didn't have access to the internet, right? And we didn't really have ways to look things up. And, you know, we relied on like, you know, Rolling Stone and Spin and Cream and all the rock magazines and stuff from the 70s and 80s and even into the 90s. But we didn't have this way of like mapping things. Right. So Zeppelin has all these influences. I mean, let's face it, they stole a bunch of riffs and a bunch of songs.

ideas from blues and R &B, but again, had no reference point, right? So like, didn't know Layton and Hopkins, I didn't know Sonny Boy Williamson. I I learned about these artists much later in life and you hear things, you read things, but now with, and I keep saying this on almost every episode, with the marvelous blessing and curse that is Spotify, easy to go back and listen. And I was doing some of that today. Like some of the tracks that I know were rip offs of some of the old blues songs, I was like, I don't think I've ever heard

the actual original version of this. went back and played a couple of them, you know, and I was like, huh, okay, you know, I can see why they glommed onto this. Right.

Cal Meadows (05:24.534)
This is an exact copy. that such or not? Yeah. Rights Clearance Nightmare. That album must have been the four specifically. One and two also. Yeah.

Chad (05:31.973)
yeah, LL One and Two were so blues influenced too. Yeah, I mean, you know, and even all the way through, I mean, they got a little more original with their blues stuff, I think, a little bit, yeah, but, for sure.

Cal Meadows (05:42.336)
The grammar is identical. And I think in a lot of ways, they use it very effectively to their end, but definitely once you know it, you can't unsee it a little bit, how much ripping off there was.

Chad (05:53.535)
Right. For sure. So let's talk a bit about the history that the genesis of Led Zeppelin, you know, I don't think it's any secret to anybody listening and you know, it doesn't need to be you can obviously Google it but you know, Paige and John Paul Jones, Jimmy Paige, John Paul Jones were these session guys, right? They were these musicians and in and out of different bands, know, Paige and the Yardbirds.

Cal Meadows (06:00.886)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (06:19.276)
And then the New Yardbirds, yeah.

Chad (06:20.962)
Right. And John Paul Jones was just like a very in demand session player, you know, played a lot of bass and keys and stuff on different albums.

Cal Meadows (06:28.266)
And John Bonham was also there.

Chad (06:30.64)
Well, John Bonham was really not a session guy. He was just in a bunch of like pub bands really in England. And he and Robert Plant, I think had maybe gone to school together, I want to say, or like lived in the same town or same village or whatever. And, you know, Plant was like just this kid, right. That was in these, you know, again, like bar bands. And I think they were in a band together called Band of Joy. So, you know, here come the two session guys that, you know, at their ripe old age of like, what, 22 or whatever.

Cal Meadows (06:40.672)
I think so. I think so. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (06:52.32)
Yes.

Chad (07:01.188)
Yeah, we're like, you know, these, these, these sort of jaded polished, you know, session players that were in demand and had been on like hundreds of records. And you've got like, bottom and plant who are these two country bumpkins really. and you know, it was one of those like word of mouth things where it's like, you gotta hear this guy saying. you know, when, when they went to go see plant saying playing was like, Hey, you should really hear my friend play drums. He's incredible. Right. And he brought bottom into the band and like the whole thing just kind of gelled. so, know, Led Zeppelin was kind of.

Cal Meadows (07:12.49)
Yep, absolutely.

Cal Meadows (07:17.867)
Yeah.

Chad (07:30.522)
born and the funny thing is they initially wanted Keith Moon on drums I don't know if you know that

Cal Meadows (07:34.54)
I didn't know that. That's really funny. Oof.

Chad (07:36.746)
Yeah, they page was like looking for the next yard bird slash cream supergroup kind of set up and he was approaching all these other players. I think at one point he went to Steve Marriott from the faces and wanted him for lead vocals. But like he was under contract and his manager threatened page and was like, you know, back off. I'll break your fingers, you know, that kind of thing. So, yeah, they wanted Keith Moon to be in the band. And, know, he wasn't leaving the who obviously. And I think it was Keith Moon who sort of

Cal Meadows (07:50.336)
Yes.

Cal Meadows (08:04.704)
obviously.

Chad (08:06.593)
inadvertently named the band because he said, yeah, a super group with all of us would go over like a lead balloon.

Cal Meadows (08:12.076)
yes, and then the Hindenburg cover art was a little too appealing to them and they were like, this is gonna stick I think. Good marketing thing.

Chad (08:18.341)
Well, interestingly, LED, L -E -A -D, Zeppelin, they dropped the A because they knew that Americans wouldn't pronounce it correctly, right? They would say, Leed Zeppelin.

Cal Meadows (08:28.054)
Yeah, they call it lead Zeppelin. It's The -Phenetics, getting them again.

But also this is very much an era where it was ripe for album oriented rock to kind of come into the mainstream because the way that record contracts were starting to become popular was that you get paid for the album as a unit, right? And instead of getting paid per like set of tickets you sold plus the album plus like here's a time based deal like you're you're under our our jurisdiction for like a year. It's like we're going to be pouring you money for this many albums and you bet they better be damn good.

better get all the personnel, but we're going to pay you by the album. And so I think a lot of people would describe Led Zeppelin as the advent of album rock, and I think they would have strong historical founding to do so.

Chad (09:15.439)
Yeah, I think so. And, you know, I think from from the early days, know, Page and John Paul Jones, I think, wrote a lot of the music, stole a lot of the music because it was really their influences. Bron and Bottom, who just had this raw talent and, you know, Page, who could sing his ass off. mean, Page Plant, who could sing his ass off. And. Yeah, a little a little. Yeah, I mean, they all kind of put harmonies in here and there, too, I think, over over time. But.

Cal Meadows (09:24.64)
Mm

Cal Meadows (09:34.57)
A page could kind of sing. He was there too.

Right. Mm -hmm.

Chad (09:44.793)
Page had this vision of what he called like light heaviness or heavy light. I forget how he described it, but it was basically like this idea of music can be both heavy and light at the same time. So we had these like massive thudding riffs backed up against like these gorgeous melodic bits in the songs, right? And that was sort of his thing. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (10:02.122)
I like mandolins and folk influence and Welsh folk music influence as well. So sometimes they just go raw for like seven minutes and then the ending would be like this Lil T thing. And that was his old Jwadavy.

Chad (10:12.023)
All right. Yeah, for sure. And I think some of that came out really by the third album.

Cal Meadows (10:19.468)
Mm -hmm. Very much so.

Chad (10:19.769)
because it was around the time of Woodstock and the whole Southern California folk thing. So he was listening to a lot of Joni Mitchell and CSNY. And I think he picked up lot of influence from that. In fact, Page, I think famously said that when he first picked up a mandolin, he had no idea how to play it. He just moved his fingers around trying to find chord shapes. And then when it sounded right, he remembered it.

Cal Meadows (10:29.022)
and see you later, ciao.

Cal Meadows (10:41.461)
Yep.

Cal Meadows (10:44.864)
Yup. That sounds... me too. Exactly.

Chad (10:47.715)
Yeah, yeah, well, right. Well, guitar player hasn't done that. You know, I think I pissed off your mom years ago because she bought a mandolin and she was like struggling to learn how to play it. And I picked it up and I was like, let me see. this sounds, it's a C chord. Okay, let me play a C chord for a while. know, she was like, damn you.

Cal Meadows (11:00.544)
That's how I play with my man, Quentin.

Yeah, but I do think that a lot of those really epic performances at Woodstock did have a big influence on them, like especially Richie Havens and Jimi Hendrix's really long performance and again, that heavy lightness, sense of there's a lot of gravity to this, but also it can be really light, either lyrically or melodically or harmonically, and just playing with those different dimensions of gravity and trajectory and forward motion with that riff kind of bass music that I'm sure will get into the iconic riffs. But a lot of the stuff that really drives their music forward is the

those riffs and I think they do a really effective job of doing that kind of heavy light balance that he was trying to accomplish, more or less.

Chad (11:42.134)
yeah, yeah for sure. So who's your favorite if you had to pick a post -British invasion guitarist, the British guitar heroes of the late 60s, early 70s. If you had to go between Clapton, Page, Beck, John Mayall. Really?

Cal Meadows (11:55.734)
Clapton. It's Clapton for me. I'm basic. I just, big cream fan.

Chad (12:07.171)
Yeah, yeah, me too.

Cal Meadows (12:08.812)
It's mostly because of Ginger Baker though in my defense. And I'll tell you why. He and everyone in that cohort and everybody in Led Zeppelin at the time were all mythology heads. And I love how they even brought that into their guitar playing in a way. They're kind of the sense of whimsy that he brought. And he was like kind of like he was the carbon copy that everybody was trying to be. Especially post British invasion when his work went a little off the rails, obviously.

Chad (12:20.933)
Yeah.

Chad (12:38.738)
I don't know, mean, it used to be Clapton. Clapton's so precise and melodic and just like very measured and has such a good feel. But, and Page is just sloppy and brash, but he's got so much more soul, if you ask me, yeah, than Clapton has ever had.

Cal Meadows (12:38.766)
How about you?

Cal Meadows (12:59.2)
He's got more umph. Yeah. Me too.

Chad (13:04.454)
Beck's just a whole different animal. feel like Beck really just has a whole different style of playing that yes, he played a lot of the bluesy stuff and was in that kind of cohort, but yeah, yeah, but like Page just, I don't know, there's just something visceral about Page just playing for me. It literally hits me in the gut. So I always say he's my favorite out of all those 60s British guitarists.

Cal Meadows (13:13.994)
Stevie Ray Vaughan Campo.

Cal Meadows (13:21.75)
to me too. Absolutely.

It's hard for him not to be, but he's a very close second for me. I do, do, I think, favor a little bit of technicality and precision over that. But when I'm looking to just like listen to music to really connect with it, it's Paige every time.

Chad (13:33.819)
Yeah.

Chad (13:37.809)
Yeah, for sure. Cool. So we started talking a little bit about the development of Zeppelin sound over time. So the first two albums, we see a young band really sort of getting their footing, playing lots of cover slash ripped off type material. Third album is right around the time of that, that late sixties folk thing. And they get a little bit.

Cal Meadows (13:44.428)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (13:56.886)
Little more spolky, yeah, lot of more acoustic guitar.

Chad (13:59.545)
Yeah, and then they kind of just go from there. Like, where do you think they like, how do you think they went from four all the way through to in through the outdoor? Like, what's what's the transition? Or what's the progression for you? Like, how does that feel?

Cal Meadows (14:13.84)
I think they started to be influenced by a lot of other movements that were happening adjacent to them, like the early punk movement was happening kind of around them, like early Ramones I know was very influenced by Led Zeppelin, but also Led Zeppelin got some things like chord shapes from the punk movement and also the early hair bands that were starting in the late 70s and ready to bloom in the 80s around when Led Zeppelin faded out. I think they got a lot of influence in there, but I also think they just kind of found their pocket and they realized that like we don't need to be doing

so much ripping off that people will like be really fascinated by what we actually do. I think they hit their stride in four and I think they started they started kind of you know getting a little more experimental by Houses of the Holy, willing to take some risks sonically, willing to take some risks in terms of how they format the actual song itself, kind of going into those multi -movement kind of pieces and then by time I get to in through the outdoor they're writing epics again the same way they wanted to I think in one but they didn't really have the cohesion.

Chad (14:51.73)
Yeah.

Chad (15:08.913)
Right.

Cal Meadows (15:13.642)
or the sonic grammar or the harmonic grammar to do that. And then by the time you get to coda they're just like well shit here's a snare drum better thwack the hell out of it because we have we said so much

Chad (15:20.883)
Well, Koda was really a bunch of outtakes, right? It was stuff that hadn't been released and was maybe slated for the next possible album before Bonham unfortunately passed away, right? So I feel like you kind of can't count Koda as a creative thing. think it was like they were, you know, they owed Atlantic one more record. So they slapped shit together. But interesting you said the punk influence because...

Cal Meadows (15:38.922)
Yeah.

Chad (15:47.659)
reading I read like all the books on Zeppelin Hammer of the Gods I can't remember the name of the author on that one great book supposedly a lot of the stories are you know embellished but whatever yeah exactly but I remember them talking about wearing and tearing being like heavily influenced by punk like Paige was started to get into it and he was like hey you know we're not gonna roll over and be old rock dinosaurs we're gonna we're gonna adapt and you know kind of change with the future so yeah

Cal Meadows (15:57.812)
It's rock, they're gonna be embellished.

Cal Meadows (16:07.979)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (16:15.082)
Absolutely. And I have this like mental rubric of like songs, Zeppelin songs that sound like Tina Turner songs. Some Led Zeppelin songs sound like Bad Brains songs or like early Black Flag songs. And some Led Zeppelin songs sound like Crunchy Beetles songs. And it took a lot of brain power to realize that obviously Zeppelin came before any of my favorite punk bands, which is an embarrassing thing to realize so late. But I do think, yeah, I think the co

Chad (16:29.447)
Yeah.

Chad (16:41.364)
Hey.

Cal Meadows (16:45.026)
influence and that effect was really fascinating. I definitely do think they adapted to the times. They adapted to what their audience wanted. Their audience reacted better to their harder stuff in general, but then they had a camp of people who reacted really well to their folky stuff and they're like, guess we got to do both. And they spat out stuff like Stairway as a result.

Chad (16:51.164)
Yeah.

Chad (17:03.879)
Yeah, yeah. Speaking of Stairway, because I have a feeling it's not going to be on either one of our favorite song lists. Yeah. No Stairway denied. But have you heard the story about the solo?

Cal Meadows (17:09.832)
It's not, I actually hate it. Sorry. No stairway denied. One, counter one in the corner.

Chad (17:21.777)
the famous solo. Okay, so, you know, it's one of the most famous guitar solos ever put on tape, right? But apparently there were two other ones. Page sat in the studio and just was like, okay, I'm gonna play whatever I feel for three takes and I'm gonna go back and pick the one I like the best when I'm done, supposedly. Again, know, hearsay, right? Like, I don't know this is true, but this is what I've read. So somewhere, probably because I'm sure he kept tapes in his personal vault library, whatever, I'm sure he's got stuff. Somewhere there may exist

Cal Meadows (17:22.837)
Thanks.

Cal Meadows (17:26.558)
It is.

Chad (17:51.653)
exist two other solos to Stairway that we'll probably never hear. Yeah, unless maybe he decides to release them, you know, either before or after he dies. I know. Yeah, and I can't imagine that solo going any other way, you know, and I'd imagine they were different enough that he would have to pick between them, right? Like it wasn't like he just did like slightly different takes on the same idea. I feel like he just.

Cal Meadows (17:54.465)
Wow.

Cal Meadows (18:01.065)
Don't tempt me to proofread his downfall. That would be iconic.

Cal Meadows (18:09.94)
I can't either.

Cal Meadows (18:17.1)
No, he's not that kind of Wow. The place from his heart pulls it directly out. Funny thing about Stairway as well, and again, shout out to my dad, legend Pete Salant. He has a one, or like five second cut of Stairway. It's like, there's a lady who's sure all the glitters is gold, and she's buying a stairway to heaven. It's like Rachel's head cuts right to the end. He goes, this is this is the cut. This is the definitive cut.

Chad (18:18.852)
Yeah, no, not at all. He's very sort of, you know, just off the cuff. So, yeah.

Chad (18:36.038)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Chad (18:44.22)
Well, having worked in radio myself, they used to call Stairway the bathroom break song, right? Cause it's like, you know, yeah.

Cal Meadows (18:47.2)
Yes. yeah, one of one of many. Absolutely. But I grew up listening to the radio, so I had no idea how long it was until I was a teenager. So yes, underway didn't quite make it the not even the mothership remaster. But again, if we go through all the live albums and all of the compilations, we have a two hour episode.

Chad (19:07.345)
Well, we can put some stuff in the show notes for folks to read if they want about those.

Cal Meadows (19:11.628)
For sure. Yeah, and if you've never somehow listened to the full track, you should. Just because we're not, like, enamored with it as old heads, you know. I'm just exhausted. I'm jaded. No stairway, done -eyed. Too.

Chad (19:17.291)
for sure. I'm enamored with it still, but it's just, you know, it's been done to death, right? And I'm just so tired of stare away. Denied to. I have feeling we're going to get at least up to three or four before we're done.

Cal Meadows (19:38.944)
You will see.

Chad (19:41.65)
So yeah, and it's funny, if, don't know how long ago, it's been a minute since they released these deluxe editions. So they have like a lot of like alternate takes and early mixes and things. And I haven't really dug into that a whole lot. I've listened to bits and pieces. Yeah. yeah.

Cal Meadows (19:59.057)
not really worth, four might be worth your time. of the, some of the alternate, there's an alternate take of Black Dog, it's very interesting, but mostly they're just really tragic mixes and to be, yeah, no, all good.

Chad (20:09.374)
Black Dog was supposed to be, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but Black Dog was supposed to be, I think, more of a reggae type tune, but I think Bonham couldn't get the timing or something, and it ended up being heavier, and they were like, let's play it that way, that's even better. Something like that happened, I think, in the studio. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (20:14.924)
Mm -hmm.

Cal Meadows (20:18.828)
I was thinking of saying fence.

Yeah. Yeah. It's true. That's what I've heard as well. But honestly, even the 1990 remasters, you still have to put the vocal boost EQ on Spotify. If you have any hope of like interpreting planties plantish. Bustle and the head drill and all that.

Chad (20:41.755)
Yeah, I still struggle with the lyrics, you know, thankfully Genius exists. So for some of the deeper cuts that I'm like, what the hell is he saying? Like, I don't think I ever realized exactly what the words are here. Like now I've gone and looked them up and now I know them all. And I'm like, you know, 30 years later, I just figured it out.

Cal Meadows (20:46.25)
Yes.

Cal Meadows (20:50.538)
you

Cal Meadows (20:56.064)
That's where my Crunchy Beetle song is. If there's something in your bustle in your hedgerow, it's like it's giving... let Ringo write the lyrics on this one.

Chad (21:00.658)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Cal Meadows (21:05.718)
But again, it's kind of smart people lyrics if you listen closely, they bring in things like Norse mythology, you have the Christian mythos being brought in, Hinduism, all kinds of like mythology influences and story influences, as well as like a really deep, pretty consistent universe of their own about, know, like the ocean has its kind of its own vibe. But I promise I'm not gonna house this with the Holy Post on Maine quite yet. We'll get there. We'll get there. Let's start getting there.

Chad (21:09.65)
Yeah.

Chad (21:27.059)
We'll get there. So why don't we start getting there? We're going to talk about favorite songs from each album and why that's that's the most important part. So all right. Why don't you kick us off with Led Zeppelin one? Really? Huh, OK.

Cal Meadows (21:37.014)
we'll try with the Y. We'll try. With one. Communication breakdown.

Either communication breakdown or good time, bad times. That was my honorable mention. But I just think it's a really good early take of what their early sound was trying really hard to be. This kind of driving, bizarro rock that is very bluesy. But communication breakdown is also a great example of one of the stolen, like the word note for note, stolen opening riffs. But I'm a fan. I like it. How about you?

Chad (22:12.2)
Yeah. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. And I agree with that sentiment because like a lot of people credit Zeppelin with being like the first, know, the sort of proto metal band, although I think Sabbath really takes that, that moniker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. True. Yeah. whatever, whatever you said. so my favorite track on Zeppelin one is how many more times,

Cal Meadows (22:20.906)
Yes. I think Sabbath was so influenced by Zeppelin though. Ozzy has said time and time again, for whatever reason, being his friend. We can't do Randy Rhoades, much as I wish we could.

Cal Meadows (22:41.046)
Mmm.

Chad (22:41.607)
I just love.

how it builds in the beginning. It starts out with the bass line. Page just kind of wangs in with this wah -wah guitar kind of thing. And it's just off to the races, right? And it just gets really heavy really quick. It's a lot of fun to play. The first band I was in, myself and the bass player and the drummer used to warm up to that a lot of times. would just start, like somebody would just start playing their part and the other two would just jump in like, shit, we're playing Zeppelin. Okay, here we go. You know?

Cal Meadows (22:55.764)
Yeah. yes.

Cal Meadows (23:08.492)
It is one of those songs I feel like you have to know for soundcheck. yeah, I could probably stumble my way through it very badly. But all right, you start this one.

Chad (23:14.065)
Yes, for sure.

Nice. So Zeppelin 2. All right. This was a hard one for me because it's one of my favorite Zeppelin albums, not my top favorite album, but one of my favorites. I had to pick Lemon's song. The bass line for me, it's John Paul Jones' bass playing. It's just that groove in the kind of bridge breakdown, whatever you want to call it. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (23:27.744)
Yes. It's up there for me too.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (23:43.767)
Yeah.

Lemon song is like my runner up. It's so funny. Lemon song is the one I find myself singing the most though, because I mean, how can you not run around your house? I should have quit you a long time. I'm not going to actually do the voice because my cats are sleeping and they'll be held to pay. It's heartbreaker for me. Heartbreaker is my personal stairway in terms of you can always catch me in guitar center going down, down, down, down, down, down. Yeah. Again, it's, it's, it's everything. It's every, if it's every rubric box for every zeppelin thing that I like the forward driving riff is

Chad (23:56.251)
hahahaha

Okay.

Cal Meadows (24:15.708)
there, the proto shoe gaze, if you will, of all the effects that are on it, the playing with time, the playing with lyricism, the fact that you can't understand what the hell he's saying for the first five minutes, good stuff. But I do think that he was very good.

Chad (24:29.754)
I really, I love the guitar solo, that just sort of, know, yeah, yeah. It's simple, but it's, it's just raw. And that's what Page was so great at. Yeah, totally fun to play.

Cal Meadows (24:34.378)
really simple one.

Cal Meadows (24:40.672)
and it's fun to play. Yeah, it one of the first solos I ever memorized.

Chad (24:45.78)
Really? Huh, okay. Yeah, I've lost all my Zeppelin referee. We did it in the last iteration of the band that I was in. We did a Zeppelin medley. Yeah, because it's kind of really hard to cover Zeppelin. mean, you know, our singer had the right vocal range. It was a woman who could hit the notes and stuff, but it just, it doesn't feel right for some reason. You know what I mean?

Cal Meadows (24:48.79)
I'm not good at it anymore, but I was when I was playing guitar every day.

Cal Meadows (25:00.47)
Ooh.

Cal Meadows (25:04.468)
It's impossible.

Cal Meadows (25:12.502)
That's kind of sacrilegious.

Chad (25:14.192)
A little bit. So we baked it into a medley. My bass player kind of arranged it. And it was a heartbreaker into whole lot of love into the ocean. And then we play the whole of the ocean. Yeah, it was kind of cool. It a lot of fun to play, like I said. All right.

Cal Meadows (25:27.102)
I love the ocean but we're not there.

Yeah, three.

That's the way for me, with Tangerine being very close second. I just like the lush and driving. Again, I love things that chug, but the simple vocal melody, it's plaintive, it's folky. They were listening to a lot of Joni Mitchell, clearly, because it kind of has a lot of her sensibility in terms of how it's organized harmonically. And I just think it's a really beautiful song. And I think Three is very slept on, especially if you're a fan of lighter zeppelin and not this proto

Sabbath stuff that they were really getting the plays, the plays, my gosh, the record sales plays cut me a break. But I do think that if you are a Zeppelin fan and you haven't taken the time to listen all the way through three, you should do so.

Chad (26:11.461)
Hahaha

Chad (26:19.468)
Yeah, three is totally slept on. And, you know, one thing that we haven't touched on, but it'll sort of be a theme, I guess, as we go. The recordings, right? Like the actual recordings, the acoustic guitars on three just sound present and crisp and clear. And it's so...

Cal Meadows (26:35.754)
Yeah, the highs are not tinny and weird or stretched. They're very crisp.

Chad (26:38.542)
Yeah, it's such a good job. I forget who I know, Glenn Johns was around for most of their albums, if not all of them for the as terms of engineering. Yeah, but Paige did a lot of the producing. And I think he Yeah, and he did a lot of

Cal Meadows (26:47.196)
Yeah, three heads of fingerprints all over it.

I didn't know that.

Chad (26:58.411)
He I don't want to say invented studio techniques, but he definitely was a tech head. like pedals and amp placements and like how they did micing, like he had a lot of say, I think, in how things were recorded. So I think a lot of that's down to his ear, you know.

Cal Meadows (27:09.972)
Yeah. And he had a fantastic ear. mean, he had a great ear for composition too. How about you?

Chad (27:15.686)
Yeah. So speaking of, since I've been loving you, one of my favorite Zeppelin songs ever.

Cal Meadows (27:20.212)
I love since I've been loving you. was so that was a that's like third place for me. I wish this playlist is going to be so chaotic because I've if I had my way I would do like a top three for each one. But then we'd be here for two years.

Chad (27:32.209)
Yeah. But just how he just goes off and plays the blues. And again, you know, it's more controlled, it's more measured for him, you know, how he plays. Yeah, totally. So it's just that you sort of see him developing as a guitar player. It shows a little bit of restraint, you know.

Cal Meadows (27:45.396)
It's very cerebral, yeah.

Cal Meadows (27:53.822)
Yeah, I definitely wanted the more straight ahead, like blues, blues songs. It's not even really a blues rock song. You could hear B .B. playing it. Easily. Love it.

Chad (28:01.907)
Definitely. All right, four, what do you got?

Cal Meadows (28:04.822)
Alright, four. So I have Going to California. But Black Dog is the most iconic song, undeniably. But I love Going to California because of the little minor tilt that it takes really quickly when the, like the, I think it might be sinking, that whole like second act. I love that it's kind of got lots of movements within it. So like lots of little sonic worlds that it invites us to and then brings us back to and then throws us into. And it's on the surface, it's like, it's a really light, folky acoustic song, but it's actually heavy and depressing as hell.

Chad (28:07.685)
Okay.

Cal Meadows (28:34.766)
It's about losing your grip on insanity, but it's beautiful and inventive. But obviously, mean, I would be remiss not to mention how amazing Black Dog is, which is kind of a song about low -key nothing.

Chad (28:35.163)
Yes.

Chad (28:49.299)
Supposedly, Lore has it that they only called it Black Dog because there was some Black Dog that was wandering in and out of the studio that belonged to the owner of the house they recording in or farm or whatever. Yeah. But going to California, it's a highlight for me of their live stuff. And they used to like sit on the edge of the stage or sit on chairs and play it like on acoustic guitars live, which I thought was really cool.

Cal Meadows (29:01.682)
many such cases. Yeah. How about you?

Cal Meadows (29:10.442)
Yes, for me too.

Cal Meadows (29:15.274)
Yep. I wish I could have been to one of those. How about you? What's your pick for four?

Chad (29:18.231)
me too. Listen, yeah, call me Captain Obvious on this one, gotta go Black Dog. It was the first song that made me fall in love with Zeppelin and it's just like you said, it's iconic. It's sort of their signature if you ask me.

Cal Meadows (29:25.942)
So it's the

Cal Meadows (29:34.55)
I think so too. I think it's one of the most iconic songs of all time. I have no reservation saying that.

Chad (29:37.371)
Yeah. Good.

Cal Meadows (29:40.806)
with all the time zone playing with the overdriven. So the overdriven guitar sound on that was actually the settings were stolen almost exactly by slash and most of his recording. he did a lot of talking to a lot of their studio people and was like, how did he get that fuzz sound? so I, I just, cite that all the time with how innovative that work is. And you know, they kind of, you're talking about the drumming kind of out of time too. And he was just like, I'm going to invent my own time here.

Chad (29:59.441)
Huh, interesting, okay.

Chad (30:07.559)
Hahaha

Cal Meadows (30:08.748)
I love it. It is great. It's very close second, but I had to, you know, be suppressive. So that brings us to Houses of the Holy.

Chad (30:13.821)
Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. All right. Yeah, good luck picking a favorite on this one.

Cal Meadows (30:20.556)
I sat for literally 15 minutes and eventually I chose Over the Hills and Far Away. But the ocean and no quarter and the freaking car. And I think Jamaica is actually...

Chad (30:25.147)
Okay.

Chad (30:29.283)
And the crunch. Edger maker.

Cal Meadows (30:35.244)
They're also one of their most iconic songs, if you ask somebody who's perhaps not as into the deep cuts. But I love Over the Hills and Far Away for the same reasons that I love That's the Way and the same reasons I love Codec. Maybe I just have a type. Again, these riff -driven, repetitive acoustic pieces that get harder and harder as the song goes. But yeah, how about you?

Chad (30:58.535)
Yeah, Over the Hills was one of the first songs I learned, Zeppelin songs I learned how to play on acoustic guitar because I was obsessed with the opening riff.

Cal Meadows (31:05.974)
Wow. Yeah.

Chad (31:09.907)
Yeah, and I actually had borrowed a friend of mine had a 12 string. So I borrowed that and God that kills the fingers. I learned how to play some of the yeah, I learned how to play some of that song on a 12 string just because I wanted to be like authentic about it. it was fun. was a fun time. So before I tell you my favorite, do you know why the album is called houses the holy what that meant to the band?

Cal Meadows (31:16.202)
It does kill the fingers, those courses are no joke.

Cal Meadows (31:23.572)
Of course, you have to. What did you choose?

Cal Meadows (31:33.894)
No, but I do know there's a fantastic song on physical graffiti called Houses of Hope.

Chad (31:37.876)
Yes, although that came later. But houses of the holy was a term that the band used to describe the venues in which they played because they thought that connecting with their audiences and, you know, sharing music was like a like a religious experience. Yeah, so my pick has to be Rain Song. Yeah, you've got the Mellotron.

Cal Meadows (31:54.164)
Yes, that makes sense with what I know about them. That's beautiful.

Rain Song is so good.

Chad (32:05.619)
which if you don't know, I mean, you know, but I'm sure. Yeah, but for the audience's sake, a mellotron is like this thing that kind of looks like a piano.

Cal Meadows (32:07.389)
I do.

Chad (32:13.683)
But on the inside it has tape loops. So each key has a tape loop that's tuned to a different pitch. So when you hit like a C note on the piano, it plays like a tape loop of whatever instrument you happen to have queued up in the Mellotron. So it can sound like strings, it can sound like horns, it can sound like a bunch of stuff. But I think, you know, it was kind of groundbreaking. Not a lot of bands were using it at this point. House's was what, 70, what year is that, 73?

Cal Meadows (32:42.712)
I'm gonna look it up while you keep talking.

Chad (32:44.788)
Yeah, look it up. I think it's 73, but you could be right. And was it? Okay. Yeah. So a lot of bands were using it in lieu of actual live strengths, right? Because it was like new technology and it was kind of the hip thing that the cool kids were using. there you go. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Cal Meadows (32:49.548)
73? yeah, it was 73.

Cal Meadows (33:03.372)
And also all that flanger filter on the vocals. That was also the hip new tech that people use. So it's kind of like almost a proto synth. So any synth wave producers out there, you have Zeppelin to thank whether or not you know it. Also get a job.

Chad (33:13.927)
That's right.

Cal Meadows (33:21.12)
But yeah, the whole album is a masterpiece, but we'll get back to that. All right, physical graffiti slide one.

Chad (33:23.187)
Yeah, yeah, we'll get there. Yeah, so we were talking before and we decided to do two songs off this album since it is a double album. We'll be technical and cheat a little. For me, Disc 1 has to be cashmere. Okay, I mean...

Cal Meadows (33:38.686)
It's Kashmir for me too. There's no other way. I agree.

Chad (33:41.519)
It's their crowning achievement as a band. It really is. Some people say it's their way, I disagree. think Cashmere is when they hit their peak of creativity and bringing their influences to bear and just the way that song builds and the places that it goes, like, wow, you know.

Cal Meadows (33:47.372)
know.

Cal Meadows (33:58.506)
Yeah, they really did their homework and similarly the way the Beatles did their homework on kind of Raga, Eastern Indian music. There are note for note carnatic scales in there and just the way, again, the way the tension builds and they have these little micro climates and by the end how it explodes kind of in an almost yellow kind of way with the horns. It makes me think of that. But I do agree that it's their crowning achievement. think the compositionally and energy -wise in terms of the driving riff,

It fits the rubric perfectly while being very not stolen as much as things are integrated in a very creative, unique way that they've been working out for years. And the pocket is unbelievable in Cashmere. All those slowdowns and speed ups, it's still even and measured and calculated. Not a note is out of place. And it's amazing.

Chad (34:40.765)
Yes.

Chad (34:49.327)
No, and that's a testament to Bonham as a drummer, I think, because his touch, he was one of the heaviest players ever in rock, but he had a light touch, right? And that's really hard to pull off. No, he beat the shit out of the drums, but he did it gracefully. Yeah. And by the way, Page and Plant had spent a bunch of time apparently in Morocco prior to the writing of this record. So like a lot of his influences came through.

Cal Meadows (34:53.301)
I agree.

Cal Meadows (34:58.816)
Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't a Neil Peart type.

It's true. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (35:17.61)
Yeah, absolutely. A lot of Arabian companies. I have Black Country Woman. It's kind of a deep cut, but I fell in love with it the first time I heard it. I just think they're, again, they're just riffing with creative sourcing and it's kind of simple, but I love it. It's sketchy.

Chad (35:18.993)
What do you have on disc two?

Chad (35:23.751)
Wow, okay, deep cut.

Chad (35:37.79)
But that's the beauty of Zeppelin is like the simple stuff is so good, but the more complex stuff is also so good. Like you can, you know, no matter what your level of musical sophistication or listenership is, you can find something to like about Led Zeppelin, right? That's the great thing. Right.

Cal Meadows (35:41.384)
it is.

Cal Meadows (35:52.012)
It is. It's zippy and I could cover it in like 10 minutes. But also I do love Houses of the Holy, the song. I just think it's, again, it tells a story, tells three different stories or so that go different places very quickly. But yeah, Black Country going for me, absolutely. How about you? two.

Chad (36:00.04)
Yes.

Chad (36:06.248)
Yeah. Disc two, the wanton song. It just rocks. mean, there's no other reason why I love it as much as it's just, it's that riff and the drums and like the reverse echo thing on the guitar coming back into the chorus and stuff, like just unreal. Yes.

Cal Meadows (36:11.44)
the Wanton song is good, I should have thought of that. Dudes rock. It's Mm -hmm. It's the chugging.

Cal Meadows (36:28.63)
which ended up being really popular in the early eighties. they're like, you're not ready for that, but your kids are gonna love it. Yeah. So this brings us into like kind of what we consider late zeppelin. So which of them is next? It's not in the, it's presence is next. So presence is nobody's fault but mine.

Chad (36:35.924)
That's right.

Chad (36:41.96)
Yeah.

Chad (36:47.104)
Presence. Presence is next, yeah. Okay, I almost picked that. I almost picked that.

Cal Meadows (36:53.448)
Yeah, it reminds me of Black Dog with the vocal and doubling with the guitar and the chugging and just the wall of sound on a lot of songs on Presence, feel like. It harkens back to almost, it harkens back to Four the most, I think, of of the later albums, and I think that really gives it a unique touch. But yeah, I think it's gonna be Nobody's fault but mine.

Chad (37:03.689)
Yeah.

Chad (37:14.901)
Okay, I like that pick. It was almost mine, but I had to go Achilles' Stand.

Cal Meadows (37:19.589)
Katelyn's last stand is a great opener.

Chad (37:21.973)
It's an epic song and it's really an excessive song, which to me really sort of defines Led Zeppelin, right? That epicness, that excess. You mentioned Wall of Sound, yes. Page had always layered tracks and guitars and doubled vocals and things, as part of his recording genius, but supposedly on Achilles, there's like 36 guitars or something in that intro part.

Cal Meadows (37:46.324)
I believe it. They heard Tales of Brave Ulysses by Creeman, they took that shit personal. then they made this. They listened to Disraeli Gears a couple times and they were like, we're gonna outdo that. Yeah, no, I love it. Okay, in the outdoor, you first.

Chad (37:50.095)
hahahaha

Chad (37:56.879)
That's right, that's right.

Cool.

this is another tough one for me because there's so many good songs, but just based on the strength of the drumming, I have to go Fool in the Rain. Okay.

Cal Meadows (38:08.256)
I agree.

Cal Meadows (38:13.868)
Fool in the Rain is my runner up. Yes. Also, on the strength of the drumming, and I honestly think the songs that were chosen for Koda are also very much on the strength of the drumming. John Paul Jones also had them on his back at this point. It's all of my love for me. It was one of the first slip -on songs I heard on the radio, and I was just enchanted by the lyrics. Like, yours is the cloth, mine is the hand that moves time. I was like, whoa, man.

Chad (38:18.196)
Hahaha

Chad (38:31.102)
Yeah, okay.

Chad (38:42.4)
Do you know who he wrote that about? He wrote that about his son who passed away from some random infection or something at a very, very young age. I think he was like, you know, maybe four or five years old or something. And it happened while they were on tour. And I think like they canceled some tour dates and he flew home to be with his family. But yeah, like, it's sad. Yeah, he wrote that about his son who died.

Cal Meadows (38:44.576)
No.

Cal Meadows (38:51.212)
That's.

Cal Meadows (38:55.892)
I had no idea.

Cal Meadows (39:04.384)
Yeah. And it has a tremendous sense of sonic gravity to it too, but it also has this one part where the guitar sounds like a cat. I'm never going to get over that. But again, early use of synth strings that were copied the same sound on November rain, because it was just copied the same synth settings. And I always think about that when I listen to that. But I also think that In the Outdoors is a slept on by lot of classic rock fans. It is a great album.

Chad (39:08.671)
Yeah.

Chad (39:12.234)
Yes.

Chad (39:23.396)
Hahaha

Chad (39:34.028)
Yeah, and you know, when you think about it in the context of it was Zeppelin's last album, right? And they didn't mean it to be because, you know, obviously because of Bonham.

you know, it's, just wonder where they would have gone after that because again, it was another, another album where they took some artistic chances a little bit, you know, fool in the rain. Yeah. most of the fool in the rain lands. mean, it's, it's not your typical rock song, you know, it's got a swing to it. It's got that sort of samba breakdown in the middle with, the whistles and, know, like the sort of. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (39:52.735)
Most of them landed.

it does.

Cal Meadows (40:01.972)
Yeah, the whole bataria, the whole, yeah, and they did their homework again because they use a lot of Brazilian influence, but also I think they brought in a couple of Brazilian studio musicians for that session. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure they did.

Chad (40:14.123)
Yeah, probably. And, you know, we hear really the purdy shuffle, but Bonzo makes it the Bonzo shuffle, right? I mean, like he really adopted that, that sort of ghost note shuffle pattern and he added his own little flavor to it and it just works, you know? Yes.

Cal Meadows (40:31.205)
other musicians noticed and picked it up and made their own little shuffle. It wasn't brawny marr but it was their own thing.

Chad (40:38.571)
Well, Jeff Precaro credits, says, you know, not only because he grew up at like, you know, Bernard Purdy's knee, but also he said that the Bonhams version also influenced him, you know, as well. Yeah. And he put that to use on Rosanna, you know, he sort of like combined the two almost and came up with his own. Yes.

Cal Meadows (40:48.362)
That makes so much sense, absolutely. And then, yes. I'd also smash him the shit out of that Tom. But with a lighter touch than, you know, your Neil Peart, your Ginger Baker.

Chad (41:05.727)
Yeah, Ginger was just like a Neanderthal with the drums, but in a good way, you know, like, mean, he just...

Cal Meadows (41:10.016)
That budget must have been ridiculous for those drumheads. Reno just like calls them like, hey, I heard you broke another one, man. And then Koda, as you said, it's kind of just like they owed Atlantic one more.

their souls were on the line. I like poor Tom, again, just packing this shit out of drums, poor Tom's heaven son. It is just driving and bizarre and kooky and doesn't really go too far out of its comfort zone, but boy does he smack the shit out of that snare. And I respect it because it's the whole song is just based on the snare and I'm cool with that.

Chad (41:39.35)
Yes. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's all you need. So I had to go with it's sort of a retread. It's the live slash soundcheck version of I Can't Quit You Baby, which the one on Coda supposedly was recorded either at a

Cal Meadows (41:46.153)
Mm -hmm.

Chad (42:00.344)
actual concert or at a soundcheck for a show at the Royal Albert Hall in England in January of 1970. So to me, it captures the band and it's supposedly like they overdubbed some some stuff for Koda on it. I'm not sure if that's true or not. Again, like this is all just, you hearsay. But my lord, it's a band at the height of their young power.

Cal Meadows (42:15.232)
I believe it.

Cal Meadows (42:21.546)
at her peak, absolutely.

Chad (42:23.798)
You know, they just played effortlessly together. Bonzo's all over the place with the drums. It's some of Page's best guitar playing. It's sloppy as hell, but it's just so good. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (42:31.41)
I think it is. Yeah.

It's angular, but it works. It kind of like loops everything together. He's kind of like meandering around everyone else and it works because he's picking up little bits of what everyone else is doing. It's never just, and it's never the same twice. It's like, that's the thing about the meandering and tying together method is it's just, it brings a fresh sense to every performance of that song. And I think that's probably one of the big strengths of that live performance too. Cause it is, very, it's a weirdly moving performance.

Chad (42:44.492)
Yes.

Chad (42:58.102)
Yeah, for sure. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, I mean, and the band wasn't really known for their live. mean, they didn't, you know, they didn't ever put out an official live album. I they did. Well, they did song, our band is the same, the movie, like the concert film. But, you know, I think also I think Page was never satisfied with how the live sound came out enough to put out an album. So the fact that he included this on this, like, you know, extra hits kind of album. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (43:09.42)
Got an official one.

Cal Meadows (43:25.836)
Kind of vulnerable for him, yeah.

Chad (43:28.128)
So it speaks volumes about that performance and apparently he really liked it.

Cal Meadows (43:31.552)
Yeah, and also the ethos of the band, even as was, you know, the sun was setting on it. I think they would have become Sabbath if they kept going.

Chad (43:36.46)
Yeah. I don't know. I feel like they would have gone in a little more like punk new wavy direction maybe as much as they could. mean, you who knows? yeah. So the decision was made when Bonham died. You know, they just said, look, we can't replace him. Like, it's just not, it's just not possible. Yeah. And that was the right decision.

Cal Meadows (43:45.398)
Yeah, I can see that too.

Cal Meadows (43:56.116)
No, absolutely not. I agree.

Chad (44:00.086)
you know, and then they eventually the only time they ever played together again, really, besides Live Aid, which was sort of like a weird one off. But, you know, they kind of came back with Jason Bonham, who, by the way, is a fantastic drummer. Yeah. Yes. Well, I think he learned from one of the best.

Cal Meadows (44:08.522)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (44:13.6)
He's amazing, Also plays very precisely, yes.

Cal Meadows (44:21.014)
Well gee, I wonder how that happened. But yeah, he's fantastic. Houses of the Holy is a masterpiece album and everyone should listen to it all the way through.

Chad (44:34.74)
So that's our next topic. good. We're to jump right into it. So you just couldn't wait to get there. So we said we were going to talk about our favorite album.

Cal Meadows (44:37.514)
I just, I just holding it in, man.

Cal Meadows (44:46.358)
And we didn't know before, perhaps yesterday, that we have the same favorite Zeppelin album, which like, it makes sense because like a third of my music taste at least is attributable to your influence on me as the emperor. It's true. I think that's mostly a compliment. So, Houses of the Holy has all kinds of bizarre stuff on it. One of my favorite things about Houses of the Holy besides the entirety of The Crunch is that before they start...

Chad (44:51.947)
Yeah.

Chad (44:57.1)
Thank you. I appreciate that.

Yeah, I hope so.

Cal Meadows (45:13.418)
the ocean, they keep in the, done four already and now we're steady and then they went one, two, three, four, bam bam, bam, bam. I love this, the humanity of it. Cause I think there's a point where they got so good. You kind of forget that these are just people playing instruments and it's like, wow, they had to do four takes to get this. Like that's absolutely nothing. If anyone has, if you've never done any studio recording, four takes is nothing.

Chad (45:24.226)
Yeah.

hahahaha

Chad (45:36.492)
Hahaha

Chad (45:42.392)
it's nothing and I'm sure there were times when they had to do more but

Cal Meadows (45:43.235)
You

yeah, absolutely.

Chad (45:47.006)
And, know, also keep in mind audience that Zeppelin wrote a lot of stuff in the studio. They would, they would, and I mean, lot of bands do this, right? They come in with like an idea or somebody has a riff or somebody's just noodling during a cigarette break or something. And somebody's like, wait, wait, what's that? Play that again. You know, it's like, I don't know. here I'll play it again. Okay. shit. Well, I'm going to put a baseline or that. I hear this and you know, they just sort of go off and, and, you know, compose on the spot. And I think a lot of.

Cal Meadows (45:52.756)
in the studio on the fly.

Cal Meadows (46:05.91)
Do that. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (46:11.754)
You

Chad (46:16.905)
Zeppelin stuff even toward the end was just that where you know like there were definitely songs that were fully baked and they would write and have you know things all sort of mapped out in parts and stuff but there's a lot of times when they just had a very basic track and they would just sort of build on it right so

Cal Meadows (46:19.318)
Mm -hmm. It was.

Cal Meadows (46:32.256)
Yeah. And things would evolve and flourish and they'd play off each other's energy. And then they'd go take another cigarette break and they're like, I was smoking, thought of this really cool thing. And then they'd play off it again. And I do think that's how things like Dancing Days and The Crunch happen with all that weirdness.

Chad (46:41.07)
Yeah.

Chad (46:46.82)
Well, the crunch was, think, one of those things where they were just sort of screwing around in the studio and, and, John Paul Jones was just playing this bass line. It was sort of like, he was, you know, like, was like a James Brown kind of thing. and supposedly Paige just started playing and they do, they hit record and it just had like a basic track right away. And they were like, okay, that's a song.

Cal Meadows (46:52.235)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (46:57.526)
Who's a noodle one? Yeah, it does have a Games Round vibe to it.

Cal Meadows (47:09.804)
Yeah, everyone seen the bridge? Genuinely was trying to figure it out. And I love that that stayed in. It's such a steely moment. Everything always comes back to Dan. It does. Yes.

Chad (47:24.94)
It has to. I wonder if Fagan ever listened to Led Zeppelin. I feel like he didn't. I feel like he turns his nose up at Zeppelin for some reason. I don't know.

Cal Meadows (47:31.606)
You had to have, right?

He turns his nose up at lot of album rock stuff, which is hilarious because...

Chad (47:38.744)
Walter Becker was a total zeppelin head. could just tell. He was a total zeppelin guy, but not Fagan. Yeah, yeah, totally.

Cal Meadows (47:41.962)
yeah, again the sonic grammar sharing, yeah, back and forth. But yeah, no, I do think that Fagin would have turned his nose up at, he might have liked in the outdoor though. I could see that. But yeah, no, House of the Holy is great. And I'm trying to think of what else I have to, I have the track list up on my phone under here.

Chad (47:53.058)
Yeah, yeah I could see that.

Chad (48:02.403)
Yeah, I'm looking to. So we have song remains the same, which is just this other thing that starts out with this great riff and just sort of builds and, you know, just, just becomes epic. Yeah. We talked about the rain song, talked about over the hills, the crunch.

Cal Meadows (48:09.878)
Crescendos and things like that. We did. Yep. Talked about The Crone. Dancing Days is one of their most iconic songs too, I think, actually. But it's like one of those sleeper iconic songs that like, if you know Led Zeppelin well, it's a good example of what they were doing at the time. Trying new stuff, trying new sound, skipping around, doing shuffly things, yeah, all that.

Chad (48:21.39)
Yeah.

Chad (48:34.948)
Jermaker too, I feel like it's the song that a lot of people know because it gets played at lot of frat parties, know, or used to. Right.

Cal Meadows (48:41.054)
Yeah, it's the one with biggest reggae and ska influence too, or like the most straight ahead reggae and ska influence. And I think a lot of their music has that in more subtle ways, but they were basically just like, we're going to write a ska song or a reggae song rather. But yeah, it does, guess get played at frat parties a lot. And I do think, I think sonically it's very clean compared to a lot of the heavier guitar tone. It was a little more fuzz, a little more blues overdrive. And it's a nice contrast in the album.

Chad (48:54.81)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (49:10.958)
like no quarter just goes off the rails with the, I got a tape delay and the flanger and.

Chad (49:18.124)
Yeah, and like all the synth stuff going on, that was pretty new for them at this point in the discography, right? Like they hadn't delved deeply into the whole synth thing. This is really the first time.

Cal Meadows (49:29.418)
Yeah, and I think they use it to great effect. And again, I just think that that really wet sound gets stolen a lot after that. Used a lot after that. And we talked about the ocean too. The backing vocals on that make it priceless to me. Yeah. I think...

Chad (49:32.558)
Yeah.

Chad (49:39.449)
Yeah.

Chad (49:46.744)
Yeah, and what an album closer, by the way. Like, go out on a high note.

Cal Meadows (49:52.446)
So we could do a whole episode about album rock too, but I think The of the Holy is also a really good example of the track arrangement being perfect. If you listen to it through, it's practically seamless. Nothing gives you agitator out of nowhere. Everything's like, okay, well this built really high and now I'm ready for a more upbeat song. Or the maker ends kind of slowly, so I'm ready for something like no quarter that's gonna drag on.

Chad (50:00.248)
Yes.

Chad (50:06.756)
hahahaha

Cal Meadows (50:17.782)
I think the placement's perfect, I think the beginning and ending are perfect, I think the flow is great, I think the rhythmic language is very accessible, even though the rest of it kind of is very bizarre. I think it's about as avant -garde as they got. Yeah.

Chad (50:31.354)
And it's an eight song, 41 minute album, right? Which is sort of, you know, not really a thing anymore. I feel like.

Cal Meadows (50:38.572)
No, certainly not. Now you get a 15 -track, one -hour and two -minute album.

Chad (50:45.358)
Yeah. So I think to your point that it's just perfect. They get in, they do what they have to do, the transitions are seamless, they get out and it's just a perfect album. no filler, all killer. All killer, no filler.

Cal Meadows (50:51.872)
There's no filler either. No killer, no filler. All killer, no filler. I think very few Zeppelin albums have anything I would honestly and earnestly consider filler. Even, again, some of the deeper stuff that we talked about has its place. And I certainly am a big fan of, like, again, Black Country Woman, I think is very... It's got its place because, it's demonstrative of the style evolution. And from, like, a music theory point of view, there is no filler, in my opinion.

Chad (51:21.368)
Yeah, I agree. That's true. don't, well, you don't see albums anymore, right? That's the thing is people put out like EPs and just songs and that's about it. I'm looking to, because there are a few non album tracks that have a little bit of notoriety that we didn't really talk about. Maybe we should close out the episode here. Yeah, I'm trying to, I know one of them off the top of my head.

Cal Meadows (51:21.782)
Don't see much of that anymore either.

Thank guys so much.

Cal Meadows (51:37.792)
Yeah, it's true. We should. I'll you lead this.

Cal Meadows (51:48.17)
Also, I can't believe we didn't mention the immigrant song, because I feel like that's their other song.

Chad (51:51.161)
Yes, also a great album opener, right? It's the first track on three. And it starts with this like tape piss stutter kind of thing. So it's yet another example of like just studio stuff that they left in on purpose, which it's like, why would they do that? But it's genius. Yeah, totally.

Cal Meadows (51:59.52)
Yep.

Cal Meadows (52:05.632)
And then the Ramones picked that up. And then like CC DeVille picked that up in Poison. And I was like, you're not slick, bud.

Chad (52:11.256)
hahahaha

No, he's certainly not slick.

Cal Meadows (52:17.601)
But it's so funny because it's so different from most of the three continuous after that. But it's a bang up of an album opener.

Chad (52:21.284)
Hahaha

So we have Hey Hey What Should I Do, which is a fantastic song. was a B -side to something, I think.

Cal Meadows (52:26.732)
it's so good, yes.

Cal Meadows (52:32.298)
I think it was, hang on, I'm look this up. it was the B -side of Immigrants song. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I thought so, I thought so.

Chad (52:35.936)
Yes, right, right. Yeah. Okay. So it's like Led Zeppelin III era. I don't know why it didn't make the album or why they didn't release it as just a separate single. It was such a great song. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (52:41.408)
Yes.

Cal Meadows (52:47.286)
That's a great question. I'm trying to look quite confined about this. Yeah, because the first time it was released on CD was in the box set.

Chad (52:53.41)
Yeah, exactly. It had been like the sort of, what's the word I want? Like a lost zeppelin song for years and you know, only the real zepp heads knew about it. Yeah.

Cal Meadows (53:00.652)
Yeah, it got covered a good bit though. It definitely got covered pretty well though.

Chad (53:06.018)
Yeah. Then you had Traveling Riverside Blues, which was another sort of lost track that was recorded. you know, it only came out during, I think with the BBC sessions when that came out. Yeah. First time. And then there was one more song. It's escaping me. I'm looking through the discography, trying to find it right now.

Cal Meadows (53:09.598)
man, yeah.

Cal Meadows (53:16.682)
Yes, yes, was certainly the first time I held it, yeah.

Cal Meadows (53:27.822)
We're both going to come up on it as soon as we're done recording and we're going to be really done. Yeah.

Chad (53:30.189)
Of course we are.

Cal Meadows (53:36.588)
going to do with Google.

Chad (53:39.95)
Maybe it's on Mothership. No, it's not on Mothership. Well, anyway, there's one more song, I think, that wasn't released. here we go. It's on the Super Edition or the Deluxe Edition of Coda.

Cal Meadows (53:54.08)
You the highway?

Chad (53:59.447)
Baby Come On Home. Yeah. Was that an original or is that a cover? Yeah. Bert Burns, I want to say. Why don't you Google that and keep me honest here. Or maybe Bert Burns wrote it. Maybe he didn't perform it. Anyway, so those are the three songs that like, you know, when I was younger, like you heard about these songs and okay. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

Cal Meadows (54:00.182)
So baby come on, I I was not there. It's a cover. I'm starting to think I remember who it's a cover of though.

Cal Meadows (54:12.158)
I am Googling it. I will.

Cal Meadows (54:22.282)
Yeah, with burnt burns. Yep. Of course, of course it was. That is DNA.

Chad (54:27.513)
But these are the three songs that like, know, besides Hey Hey, which always you heard on the radio because, you know, DJs had access to it, but the other two songs, they were like mythical, you know, and then for them to come out finally. Yeah, totally. So it was exciting. Cool. Anything else? Yeah. Yes.

Cal Meadows (54:36.886)
They were, it was like lost media, yeah.

It is exciting. So we've come real out of ground. Yeah, go listen to Zeppelin. Doesn't matter who you are, what your tastes are, you'll find something you like. Promise.

Chad (54:50.871)
Yeah, and I strongly suggest, I mean, it's not a long discography.

Cal Meadows (54:55.232)
Not at all. Nine albums that are short was nothing for these days.

Chad (54:58.625)
Yeah, listen to the whole thing, listen to them in order or, you know, just put the whole thing on shuffle. Well, there's this great line. Well, first of all, you know, no stairway denied us from us. We got the three. That's from Wayne's world. But there is also a great line in the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High, which I don't know if you've seen which.

Cal Meadows (55:03.532)
Make your own Star Wars order. Listen to 4 first.

Cal Meadows (55:12.684)
Great, didn't I? Okay, we got to three. We did get to three, okay.

Yes.

Cal Meadows (55:21.77)
I have not, but I know of it. It has not aged particularly well, as I understand it. Yeah.

Chad (55:23.051)
Yeah, it's not worth your time. doesn't really hold up. Yeah, no, it hasn't. rewatched it a few years ago and I was like, you know, cringing all the way through it. I mean, there's some funny parts still. There's some good scenes. basically, there's this one character who's giving another character advice on like, you know, how to make out with girls and stuff. And he says, whenever possible, put on side two of Led Zeppelin IV.

Cal Meadows (55:30.592)
Yeah.

Cal Meadows (55:48.427)
Yeah

Fair enough.

Chad (55:52.698)
And then they cut to the kid in the car with his date and he's actually playing cashmere. like he got, so he gets it all wrong anyway. So it's kind of, kind of a funny, I feel like it's a Cameron, Cameron Crowe wrote that movie, I think, didn't he? Yeah, I think he did. So yeah, yeah. for sure. Yeah. So anyway, well, I guess we'll close with that whenever possible. Put it on side two of Led Zeppelin 4.

Cal Meadows (56:02.614)
That is funny. That makes a lot of sense. He would have been a Zeppelin guy. That makes sense.

Cal Meadows (56:12.276)
Yeah. Yes. You know, your mouth through whatever it is.

Chad (56:18.041)
Cool. Well, thank you so much, Cal. It's always great chatting music with you and it feels like this hour just flew by.

Cal Meadows (56:21.832)
It's been a pleasure to be back. Yes, and we'll do the... We could have done a double length on this, obviously. Next one we have to do is going to be the Guns N' Roses episode. The appetitisode.

Chad (56:29.177)
We could. Okay, I'm in for that. We could do Appetite, but I feel like we could totally cover the early discography, G &R lies. Yeah, we could stop after Use Your Illusion as far as I'm concerned. There's nothing of value after that, but I know you do. know you do. We'll do it. We'll get there.

Cal Meadows (56:39.091)
Use your illusion.

Mm -hmm. Yeah, it generalizes some music.

Cal Meadows (56:48.876)
I do want to talk about Chinese democracy. We'll get there. But yes, go listen to Zeppelin. We'll have the show pedestal be both of our favorite songs. I just put out a demo EP under my nom de plume Oracle ambassador that has two original songs and a cover of You Can Close Your Eyes by James Taylor. I know you're team Carly, but I am team James and I'm not sorry.

Chad (57:11.801)
Excellent!

Cal Meadows (57:17.854)
So I will pass that along too, if that's cool.

Chad (57:21.065)
Absolutely. I will put the link to it in the show notes for sure. Yeah. Great. Absolutely. My pleasure. We'll talk soon. All right. Bye.

Cal Meadows (57:24.79)
Fabulous. Well, thanks for having me again. It's been great to be here.

Talk soon.