Episode 25 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:01.68)
Hello and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. I'm joined this week by author Wendall Thomas. Hi, Wendall. Thank you so much for joining me this week. I really appreciate you coming on and why don't you tell the audience a bit about yourself.

Wendall Thomas (00:08.11)
Hey, Chad.

Wendall Thomas (00:16.046)
well, I'm, I'm an author, mystery author and short crime fiction writer, but I also teach in the graduate film school at UCLA. I've been doing that since 1997. So it's a really long time. And because of that, at least before the pandemic, I had an opportunity to do a lot of lecturing about screenwriting overseas. So that's kind of my work life. I grew up in North Carolina. We'll talk more about that later. My North Carolina, Don Dixon connection. and I taught at an all male boarding school.

In 1981, I was the first single woman to teach at Deerfield Academy, which was my first job out of college. So that's probably the stupidest thing I ever did. And otherwise, you know, I've been in LA since 86. I drove out with my albums, my cat, and my 65 Ford Galaxy 500.

Chad (00:46.064)
wow.

Chad (01:05.553)
Amazing. Do you still have that car? Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:07.598)
I wish I still had that car. I wish I still had that car, believe me. It was the best car I ever had. I loved it.

Chad (01:13.649)
I bet. that's so cool.

Well, great. So, you know, we sort of connected as I do with many of my guests through social media. We started, you know, talking on Twitter and, you know, when I saw that you had written these novels, I went and read the first one and was just immediately in love with with your writing. So, of course, you know, I asked you to come on. And as I ask a lot of my guests, what are you currently listening to? You know, I mean, since this is music podcast, we can jump right into that. You know, give me some some things that are, you know, stuck in your ear lately.

Wendall Thomas (01:46.606)
Yeah, so we've been, we recently, for a long time, I didn't have anywhere to put my kind of stacked audio thing, my turntable, all that stuff, and we have a place now. So I've been running that five CD shuffle, which is really great. It's beautiful because it's not shuffling everything in your 35 ,000 song collection. So anyway, so I've been doing a lot of Benny More.

And I was very late to him as it like big band Cuban Afro -Cuban stuff. I just love him. So I've been playing a lot of that. I've been listening to actually Frank Sinatra at the Sands is on our shuffle as well, which is an interesting thing. And then I don't know if you've heard the new Ricky Lee Jones, but she just, yeah, she just made a new record with Russ Tittleman, her original producer. And it's all, it's all clap, it's all standards. Kind of like pop pop.

Chad (02:29.36)
No.

Chad (02:37.807)
very cool.

Wendall Thomas (02:39.15)
But yeah, it's really good. So it's in there and I've talked to a Schmelson in the night. So those are kind of in my thing, because I hadn't listened to that in ages. And then I've been listening to, I've been writing a story set in 1990. So I've been listening to a lot of stuff that I bought or listened to around that time. So that's the Bo Deans and Lyle Lovett as a big band and Chris Isaac and Bonnie Raitt's actually Nick of Time and Donnie Mitchell's To Talk Mark and St.

Rainstorm and then either be 52s. So that's kind of it. It brings back that period for me. So I've been listening to that stuff mostly and then I just, you know, I shuffle all the time. So I'm always reminded of things that I love that I haven't heard in four months or something, you know.

Chad (03:27.984)
That's great. And you mentioned the Bo Deans. I haven't heard that name in a minute. North Carolina band, right?

Wendall Thomas (03:33.358)
Yeah, but they were discovered by Jerry Harrison. That's how I found them. Yeah, and he produced that first record. And so I really liked them, actually, when they were still making records. I don't know if they've made one in forever. I think I had the first four, maybe. Yeah, but I always love harmonies and jangle guitar. So, you know, Jim Blossoms, whatever. I love all that stuff, totally. Birds related. I love all of it.

Chad (03:36.815)
huh.

Chad (03:47.216)
Okay.

Chad (03:51.119)
Yeah.

Chad (03:56.591)
I did too. One of my favorite genres and I played the Bo Deans on my college radio show in 89 in Greensboro. So we have North Carolina connection in common. Yeah, I was. I went I went to UNCG for two years. Yeah, 89 to 91. no kidding. Okay.

Wendall Thomas (04:05.1)
did you in Greensboro? You were in Greensboro? Are you kidding? Did you go to UNCG or where were you?

My sister graduated from USCG. I graduated from Carolina. Yeah, that's so funny. I love that.

Chad (04:20.559)
Yeah, that's great. You also mentioned Bonnie Raitt. So and I recently learned that you have a connection with Bonnie Raitt. You want to tell us about that? That's a great story.

Wendall Thomas (04:30.894)
Yeah, it's kind of an amazing story. So I was back in kind of mid 90s through the early 2000s. I was just hanging out a lot with Melissa Etheridge. He was just the loveliest person ever. I met her through Julie Seifer. It's a long story, but Julie was married to Lou Diamond Phillips and I met her on the Young Gun set when I worked on that. And then when she and Melissa got married, then I hung with them a lot. And she knew I loved Bonnie Raitt and she was really busy. And so she said, look,

Is there any way you can put something together for me for the induction? So I, of course, I mean, I got to call Bonnie Raitt's office and get all these notes. And of course, my speech was like 50 times longer than the one that got given. So she very much sliced it up, which is fine, because I had every credit and everything she's done for the blues musicians and like all of that stuff I wanted in. But of course, not time. But anyway, so I got to write it and and it was, I mean, surreal, really.

Because Melissa was always really, really generous. She introduced me to John Prine. She introduced me. I mean, she hung out with Katie Lang a lot. So I got to meet Katie Lang. She introduced me to Bonnie. They were just, you know what I mean? So it was a little bit like I was such the loser friend in that situation. But I was peripherally got to meet. And I think Bonnie, actually, Bonnie, when she was married to Michael, what's his name? Who dumped her, which we hate him for that.

Chad (05:44.494)
Hahaha.

Wendall Thomas (05:56.878)
Anyway, they came to like a New Year's Eve party and I was there or something. So I don't really know her. She wouldn't remember me probably, but just to even be in that, you know, I don't know, just stratosphere, it looking in was just amazing for me. Cause I, you know, the first time I heard, you know, one track from Taken My Time, I walked three miles to the record bar to buy that album. Like I couldn't ever recover from that. So I, you know, that's probably the coolest thing I ever got to do in my whole life.

I would say is to write that speech.

Chad (06:26.702)
Wow, that's that's super cool. And I'll link the I'll link the video and the show notes because, you know, you sent me the YouTube link and that's great. And I watched it and I watched it sort of shuffled up right after that Bonnie's acceptance speech. So I'll post both below. But yeah, so cool. So cool to watch them. Yeah. Yeah. yeah.

Wendall Thomas (06:30.926)
I was really lucky.

Wendall Thomas (06:43.054)
good, yeah. I mean, she's such a badass. And she's still, you know? I mean, unbelievable, still, and always. I love her so much. So.

Chad (06:52.079)
Yeah, me too. I think we were talking right before we started recording about her, but like I came very late to the Bonnie Raitt game. I think she wasn't really my speed in the 80s and 90s when I was sort of in my formative music years, really. But, you know, sort of got turned on to some of her 70s stuff. And man, just blew me away. And she does a cover of Can't Find My Way Home, My Bad Faith. That's to die for. Yeah. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (07:15.95)
it's unbelievable with little George. Yeah, I have that recording. It's unbelievable. I know. And she can just she's such a good player. We know and give her the credit. You know, she should be on all of those top 100 lists. Seriously. Right. It's unbelievable. I don't know why. Well, it's a pretty sexist list in general. But, you know, like she should be on the list, in my opinion. And she's also just she's really generous, you know, to other artists. And she's I don't know. I think she's.

Chad (07:21.422)
Yeah, love it. Yes.

Chad (07:28.525)
for sure, she's totally underrated as a guitarist. Yeah.

Of course, of course.

Wendall Thomas (07:45.902)
really somebody to be admired. Like she and Ry Cooder I admire above almost all else in terms of their generosity and the people they've helped and pulled along and stuff. They're both amazing.

Chad (07:55.945)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. She's amazing. So you mentioned going back to 1990 and listening to some stuff to sort of prepare for help you get in the right headspace to write a piece. So tell me a bit about your writing process and how music factors into that, because that to me is very fascinating, you know.

Wendall Thomas (08:14.99)
I think I always, I'm somebody who can listen to music while I'm writing fiction. I can do that. I can listen to lyrics. I can have lyrics because some people can't or some people have to have total silence. But I usually have had, I usually do headphones. So there's nothing but the music that I'm hearing or as little as possible. And I usually have.

Chad (08:25.229)
Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (08:37.006)
I usually have something that I listen to for every book or every piece, but it's not sometimes it's counterintuitive. Like it's not always the obvious thing that I would listen to. So for some reason, I think when I was writing Fogged Off, I kept listening to Ella and Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong. Like that makes no sense at all, but it had the feeling of something for me. So it's not always, I kind of decide intuitively what to listen to. And sometimes I make a playlist or two.

but it depends. Like that stuff I write, the short fiction that I write is all set in nineties LA. And so it's pretty easy to take. I love LA in the nineties, just my favorite ever. And I, and so it's pretty easy to zap back to that, put on, you know, on Ferris or like there's a million people that are like that. So that's kind of nice. But I, but in terms of the CID books, I think that I am.

Well, we'll talk a little bit about what I associate with her. But the thing that, and that's the weirdest thing I do, I guess not that weird, but it must seem weird, is when I'm writing dialogue, I have to get up in pace. And so I will have something on that I hope is gonna trigger, and then in my headphones with my long cord, I have like three of those boingy, you know what I mean, really long cords. And I will.

Chad (10:03.242)
Yep.

Wendall Thomas (10:06.35)
if I'm writing dialogue for whatever reason. And when I was a screenwriter, I wrote more dialogue even. So that's when I started doing that, I think. It's just doing the pacing, listening thing. And maybe it's a rhythm, maybe it's rhythmic. I don't know.

Chad (10:20.906)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting that you like, you know, you're not listening to something specific to the story, like, but you're getting it's more of a vibe, right? Is sort of what you were saying. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (10:31.31)
Yeah, because well, I did, I definitely listened to some gamelan music for two trills, like the Balinese music. I definitely listened to that and that was great. But I, but it wasn't all that I listened to.

Chad (10:45.162)
Right. So you actually have a songwriting credit, I understand too.

Wendall Thomas (10:50.594)
Hilariously, hilariously. Yeah, I am when I was a teenager, my best friend growing up was really this guy named Wyatt Easterling, who is still playing all the time. He's got tons of albums out. He was an A &R guy in Nashville for a long time. He's been a music producer. He wrote several hits for other people in Nashville. Anyway, I love him. We've been friends since we were 12. We used to...

Chad (11:17.803)
well.

Wendall Thomas (11:18.158)
We had one teacher who would give us a note so we could get out of class and go outCyde and play guitar on the playground when we were like 12. So I, and I've known him forever. And so he was, and he's always been very like straight ahead and very ambitious and great. And when we were 15, we started playing together at this place called Bambino's in Durham, North Carolina, and just off highway 85. And I was under age and all this stuff. And I always tell this story because my mom is extremely religious and my dad is.

Chad (11:23.627)
Cool.

Wendall Thomas (11:47.598)
extremely cool. And so my mom, every time I would go off to play in this place, because they played beer, my mom would go, you're going to hell. And then my dad would come and run the soundboard. So that's basically my parents. But yeah, so I didn't have played. And then I had a band. I had a band that played this pizza joint. And we played, you know, ridiculous. Fleetwood Mac, the worst, they'll do the worst version of Fleetwood Mac ever, ever done. Or, you know, Andrew Gold. I don't know. Anyway, it was ridiculous.

Chad (11:55.179)
Ha ha.

Chad (11:58.763)
Nice.

Wendall Thomas (12:17.806)
And then every night at the end, I would do Danny Boy for my dad, my late dad. But anyway, long story. So Wyatt decided to do a record and he had, he's written a lot of really beautiful songs and I'll show it to you. So hilarious. Cause it doesn't have the best cover ever. But anyway, when we were, I guess, so I must've been, I don't know, 19, 20 or something. But anyway, here's Wyatt. And then it actually says,

Chad (12:22.827)
Nice.

Wendall Thomas (12:46.798)
Name my song. You can't really see it. It's called selfish lover, but you see at the very bottom. Bass Don Dixon. So that is the coolest bit. I, the thing I have to show you that will make you laugh. Is I used to sneak out. I think I told you this. I used to sneak out with my junior high girlfriends to go see his band arrogance at the cat's cradle. And here is their album. Okay. Is that the funniest?

Chad (12:54.955)
Yeah!

Chad (13:07.724)
Mm -hmm.

Chad (13:11.82)
Hahaha!

Chad (13:15.916)
Amazing.

Wendall Thomas (13:16.558)
of her Vanguard Records 1976. So it's lit, isn't it? So anyway, so yeah, so and I knew I don't really know Dawn and then he went on to play with Marty Jones forever and they've been working together forever. So I love her. But we're not friends or anything. But I was around a little bit and Wyatt still knows him and he did some other stuff at Reflections with some friends of mine. So I but I always had a crush on him and I still do. Although have you ever seen his

Chad (13:20.108)
That is the best photo ever.

Chad (13:43.756)
Ha ha ha.

Wendall Thomas (13:46.126)
his video for praying mantis. All right, well, you have to look that up. I'll send you some links because it is that it's one of the worst videos like ever made on the on the planet. And so you have to you must see it. But he's such a talented guy. He's a great singer. He's a really good songwriter. He's such a good producer. And obviously, you know, Ariem thought that so can't can't be an Aguada Canal diary. He's done tons of stuff. So.

Chad (13:51.949)
Okay, yeah.

Chad (13:58.156)
Hahaha!

Chad (14:12.813)
yeah, wow, you're throwing so many names out that I haven't even heard in years, let alone like, you know, listened to. So this... What's so am I? Because I know them all. So you're in good company. Yeah, but for the viewers and listeners, Don produced REM's first two albums, I think, Murmur and Reckoning, and I think he was brought on by Mitch Easter to help out. Yeah, so, yeah.

Wendall Thomas (14:18.766)
Well, that's because I'm so old. I am so old.

Wendall Thomas (14:33.422)
Yeah.

Yeah, they did it together. And Mitch was a North Carolina guy too. They were all like Chapel Hill people. So.

Chad (14:41.9)
Right.

Yeah, so much music came out of that area, Chapel Hill especially, especially in the 80s.

Wendall Thomas (14:50.254)
Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Did I think I put it on the thing? I have the swimming pool cues. Did you ever hear them? They were actually out of Athens too, I think, but they were great. And Richmond, Boston, another they're really good. You would like them, I think.

Chad (14:56.14)
No.

Chad (15:03.725)
Yeah, I'll have to check them out. So speaking of music and deep cuts, so you have been doing this thing on Facebook called Album Cut of the Day for some time. And you sound a lot like me because I make lists and I have to like track things and, you know, capture things and sounds like you did a little bit of that yourself. So why don't you tell me a bit about how that started and, you know, where you've gone with them.

Wendall Thomas (15:30.542)
Okay, so I was really, I always bought a lot of singles and then when I could afford it albums. My dad got me the first, my first album ever was Pisces, Capricorn Aquarius and Jones, which I still have, believe it or not, monkeys. But I started collecting records and stuff when I, I don't know, 10 maybe? I would always, that's all I use my allowance for ever was records. And so I had a lot.

Chad (15:57.419)
Me too.

Wendall Thomas (16:00.91)
I had a lot of records and I probably at some point had maybe, I don't know, over 2 ,000 albums. And so, and I brought them all to LA almost all in my car, which was really, my car was like that going up. But when, about five years ago, my husband was just like enough with these albums. Like they're too heavy. You have, you know, all of that stuff.

Chad (16:11.147)
Hahaha!

Wendall Thomas (16:23.982)
And they aren't really saleable because I'm the like, I play the song 50 times. Like I never, all of them are scratched as hell, you know, because I just can't, if I loved a song, I would just play it over and over and over. So they're all trashed or my cat has like scratched the tops of them or whatever it was. So I, but I agreed. My compromise was if I had it on MP3, if I had a CD and I had a cassette, then I could get rid of the vinyl, except for some of the really important ones.

Chad (16:30.41)
Ha ha.

Sure.

Wendall Thomas (16:52.078)
So anyway, so I started making these stacks of records that I was gonna, you know, give away. And I just would go back and go, my God, I haven't listened to that song in forever. I haven't listened to that song in forever. So I just started posting, like it's a little bit of a mournful, like here go my albums, you know, don't you remember this song off, you know, I don't know, Robert Palmer's Secrets or whatever, or The Roaches or something. And I did it for a few days and then...

I just kept doing it and then people started liking it and then I just kept doing it and now I've done it for five years. So I don't know, it's 1500 songs, something like that, I think. And so I try to do, I mean, it started out just like my favorite stuff, right? But then I was like, I tried to shake it up a little bit. So I try to do, obviously a lot of my favorite stuff is singer songwriter, 70s, California or Steely Dan or all of that. But,

But I also love soul music. I think the first single I bought was the Nitty Gritty by Gladys Knight. Like that's been one. And Joe Tech, I actually did Joe Tech's single at like 12 or something. So I love soul too. So I've tried to kind of, I think I started out kind of alternating singer -songwriter stuff and soul stuff. And then I threw in some prog rock, cause I love Genesis and then I threw it, you know, and then it kind of, and I love jazz. And so I just kind of, so now what I try to do is shake it up. So I'm not having the same kind of music.

Chad (17:54.827)
wow.

Wendall Thomas (18:19.63)
every day, if that makes sense. So I kind of think, I do think about it. Like I'll go like two weeks out and decide what I want to post unless something hits me on the day or like the other day at Paul McCartney's birthday. I had to post maybe I'm amazed because what are you gonna, you know, you got to do that. But so I do that and then I try to mix it up a little bit, but I don't know. It's really interesting. Like yesterday.

Chad (18:21.291)
Right? Sure.

Chad (18:35.563)
Of course, you have to.

Wendall Thomas (18:45.39)
I posted Laura Nero's original version of Wedding Bell Blues. Like some days I don't get anybody. And for some reason, like 40 people love that. I have no idea. You know, it's really interesting that that was one that just, you never know which one is going to go completely. No one's going to say a word about it. And then other things, there's this whole discussion, you know? So anyway, that's how, kind of how I feel about it. But it's mostly just because I love,

Chad (19:07.948)
Right. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (19:14.862)
It makes me really happy to do it. Like I really enjoy and I feel okay because people are depending on me now. So I don't feel bad about wasting the time of going on YouTube and finding the track and all of that stuff. Because it's one of my favorite things I do in my life actually. So I don't know. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Chad (19:24.652)
Hahaha

Chad (19:32.971)
That's really cool. It's like a daily journal almost. It's something you sort of have to get out. I should start doing something like that too. I just love that idea.

Wendall Thomas (19:40.014)
Well, you would have, I mean, and you would have such interesting stuff too. Cause see my husband, my husband's, you and my husband are about the same age. So he has a totally different like, you'll appreciate this story. So the first, our second date was driving from Los Angeles to Santa Fe and we both made, it really was. And so we both made tapes for the trip and we hated each other's music. It was like, there was almost no crossover. And we were like, is this a mistake? Like what are we?

Chad (19:55.851)
Wow, that's a hell of a second date.

Wendall Thomas (20:08.942)
What are we doing? It was hilarious. And then we, you know, gradually we found like, we both liked Elvis Costello, we both like Queen, like we found a few, you know, and now we have a lot more in common, but it was hilarious. It was hilarious. Cause his was all like, OMD and Pet Shop Boys and you know, Tangerine Dream and Chemical Brothers and like all of this stuff. And I was like, Joanie. Carly Simon. So it was really, it was really hilarious. But,

Chad (20:09.867)
No.

Chad (20:28.618)
Hahaha!

Chad (20:35.21)
I have a similar story with my wife and I when we first started dating.

I was making her like mix CDs, you know, that that's sort of the era that we were in then. And first couple ones that I made, I was like, did you like this song? And she's like, No, I really don't like Radiohead. And I'm like, you don't like Radiohead? I'm like, OK, like, I can't break up with you yet. Strike one. Right. But it's so funny because you just sort of said the same thing. It's like you make this huge mistake. I mean, music is so important. And I think liking the same music.

Wendall Thomas (20:57.198)
yet.

Wendall Thomas (21:06.382)
I know he's the first boyfriend I ever had where music wasn't the way we connected. Do you know what I mean? It was really interesting to me that I married him. You know what I mean? Because it was like, that seems odd. But yeah, that's the whole same thing. Because so many relationships, friendships and everything we're making. I mean, for me cassettes to begin with and then CDs. So much. I mean, it was and I still have all mine. Do you have yours?

Chad (21:12.555)
Right, right.

Hahaha

Chad (21:33.421)
Yeah, I still have. I have mixed tapes that I made for people that I got back for whatever reason. I have mixed tapes I made for myself. I have mixed tapes that ex -girlfriends made for me. You know, yeah, and not many people made me mixed CDs because I think maybe, you know, a lot of people didn't know how to burn CDs. So it was a little harder. But yeah, I mean, I still have a bunch and I kept all the ones that I made for my my wife before we were married. So they're there, you know, with all the rest of my CDs, which are

Wendall Thomas (21:45.646)
Yeah, I know.

Wendall Thomas (21:53.134)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (22:03.374)
It was sort of went through a similar situation with you as I had about 2500 CDs and my wife and I got married moved into a small.

condo and she was like, you can't have like three bookcases full of CDs in the living room. It's not going to work. So I had to get rid of all the jewel cases and put them in like the folders and the binders. So I still have them. You know, I haven't really I dig them out like every two or three years. I'll go flip through and see if there's anything that I don't have digitally that I want to rip or whatever. But yeah.

Wendall Thomas (22:31.502)
Yeah.

No, I'm the same and I do. I have the folders too and I have all of that stuff because in terms of me, I just don't want to get rid of them. I don't. I just feel like come the apocalypse. I'm going to need them. Like there's not, I'm not, I can't, that's one thing I cannot live without. And if something happened, like I still, and it's hilarious because my husband and I wouldn't, well we've been married for 20 years, but what we bought each other for our wedding present is we went on a Hollywood Boulevard and we each bought what we thought might be the last possible like,

Chad (22:41.357)
Yeah, I know me either.

That's right.

Wendall Thomas (23:03.79)
yellow Sony Walkman. So we have two of them and they're like pristine. We still have them. But yeah, I still have all my cassettes and actually until my car got totaled a few years ago, but I had a cassette player in my car and now I have an old car. So I have a CD player still. So I still play that stuff in the car. I prefer it to doing my iPod, you know.

Chad (23:05.772)
Nice.

Chad (23:18.668)
Nice.

Chad (23:24.621)
I had a cassette player.

Yeah, yeah. yeah, no, I'm really starting to lean back into physical media. I went fully digital like MP3 years ago, and then I went from that to like mainly Spotify and YouTube streaming and all that stuff. But I kind of miss the intentional ness, if you will, if of grabbing a disc and saying, OK, this is my soundtrack for the ride. You know, I don't have 50 ,000 songs in front of me with Spotify to jump around and skip to. So I'm going to put this album on.

Wendall Thomas (23:41.038)
Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (23:52.302)
Yeah.

Chad (23:57.614)
into the whole damn thing and if I don't like it too bad. Right? So.

Wendall Thomas (24:00.814)
Yeah, no, I really and I've gone back to listening because I had so many albums I loved and you know when when you're younger you listen to stuff all the way through, right? And you listen to all the songs and you do or at least I did and so I've had to make because iTunes screws things up. I've had to go and create recreate the album as a playlist. So it's in the order that I listen to it, you know, when I was younger and I it's amazing to go back and listen to an album all the way through that way instead of jumping around.

Chad (24:09.196)
Yeah. Right.

Chad (24:19.468)
Yeah. Right.

Wendall Thomas (24:28.654)
something that was really important to you when you were 13 or when you were 17. It's really valuable. I think I love that.

Chad (24:29.355)
Yeah.

Chad (24:36.075)
Yeah, it's totally valuable. And, you know, I've brought this up a couple of different times in different episodes with a few other folks, but like, I'll say it again. It's not like it used to be like it, you know, years ago, for the most part, when an artist did an album, there was at least some sort of connection between the songs, even if it wasn't a theme or a concept. But sequencing was very intentional, right? And the songs that were included versus, you know, rejected for an album. I mean, sometimes the record companies got involved with that.

but you know most of the times the artists were in control of that or at least the producer had a say and they were close to the musical Cyde of it. So if you listen to an album all the way through and the older that it was conceived you know it made sense. Plus you know something funny too is you said that you spent all of your allowance on records. I spent probably 80 % of my allowance on records and 20 % on Star Wars toys. But the fact that I had to...

Wendall Thomas (25:19.278)
Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (25:27.918)
Well that's good.

Chad (25:33.035)
Yeah, yeah. And the fact that I had to spend my own money mostly to get records, you're damn right I was going to listen to the whole thing and I was going to listen to it over and over and over again to get my money's worth out of it. Yeah, exactly.

Wendall Thomas (25:42.542)
You're gonna suck every piece out of it. I know, because I remember even in college, I allowed myself to buy three albums a week when they were $5. Well, I worked at the record bar for a while, that was a very good thing for me. But I, three albums a week, $15 a week, because I was like, that's two pizzas. Everything I figured out if I was gonna buy that shirt, that's four albums, no. I mean, everything was like, how many albums could I buy for this?

Chad (25:51.371)
Wow. Okay.

Yeah.

Chad (26:08.043)
That was your currency.

Wendall Thomas (26:09.678)
It was totally my current for years and years and years. And I still don't have like, I used to get a tower records and I would just put like 50 things in my basket. And then I would realize I had to put like 49 of them back. But I had to put them in and then make those decisions. But yeah, I've spent more stupid money on music in my life. And when CDs first started coming out, I would get all these imports from France.

Chad (26:23.212)
Hehehehe

Wendall Thomas (26:36.974)
or something like Joan Armatrading Back to the Night. I think I paid $50 for the CD or something and had it, and now it's like three cents on some, but when it first happened, I couldn't, I was like, I have to have that. I have to. So I don't know. I have no self -control when it comes to that stuff at all.

Chad (26:37.132)
Yes.

Chad (26:50.732)
Yeah.

Chad (26:54.317)
is the same way and still am. If I find a band and I try to support artists as well because let's face it, Spotify, Apple Music, they're not making any money from that. Yeah, me too. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (27:03.694)
Now I buy CDs every time I can because they don't get any money from Spotify. They don't.

Chad (27:10.189)
No, I know. So I've been really trying to purchase physical media for artists that I really want to support, you know, and then I'll still listen to them on Spotify for convenience, but I will own a copy of the music and also for the apocalypse thing, because, you know, for the longest time I was really resistant to going full streaming because I was like, but then I don't own the song. Like, you know, if I want to listen to it offline, I mean, this is before Spotify had the whole offline thing, you know, I can't and like that, that would enrage me. So.

Wendall Thomas (27:19.406)
Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (27:37.966)
Yeah, I mean, I don't even use Spotify because I've had some users and friends that have been so screwed by it. So I would buy stuff from iTunes, but I would instantly, you would laugh, I have so many CDs of burning the songs I bought from iTunes in case they disappeared. So I have such backups and backups and backups because I just can't, I cannot live without it. It's the same thing. Streaming, that could just go. So I have to have...

Chad (27:44.3)
Yeah.

Chad (27:54.668)
Right.

Chad (28:03.852)
Yeah. Well, you're my you're my kind of doomsday prepper.

Wendall Thomas (28:07.598)
I know, well, in that case, I mean, not for anything else, like I have no retirement, but damn it, I have four formats, freaking blue. So that is the thing. Now, what was the first thing you ever bought? What was the first record you bought? Or CD you bought?

Chad (28:22.06)
That's what matters. Well, so I grew up with vinyl and then went to cassette and went to CD, but I don't even know the first CD I bought. I have a guess, but let's start with vinyl. First album I ever bought with my own money, summer of 1980, soundtrack to Xanadu.

Wendall Thomas (28:45.678)
Love!

Chad (28:46.988)
I just did an episode on the movie and the soundtrack, which will come out, I think, next week as we're recording this, that is. So I'm really excited because I was... Jones had to do a Xanadu episode for like, you know, forever and I did it. Yeah, first...

Wendall Thomas (28:53.358)
great.

Wendall Thomas (28:58.542)
Wendall Thomas (29:04.302)
I can't wait. I can't wait. That's great.

Chad (29:08.047)
cassette. I don't remember the first cassette that I bought, like the first actual like, you know, commercial one. First CD, it's kind of silly, but it was probably Dead Milkman. I think I think it was. You like Dead Milkman?

Wendall Thomas (29:13.07)
Physical, yeah.

Wendall Thomas (29:19.566)
I love that. But I love that you bought that. That's

Chad (29:26.574)
Yeah, I think it was their second album came out when I was in high school.

The second one was what was it Bucky Fellini? Yeah, I think so. Or maybe it was no, it was Eat Your Paisley. I forget which one, but it was it was one of those two albums. And I was one of the first CDs that I bought because I got a CD player. I think as a gift, I want to say for my birthday or something. And it was the the Sony car CD player that came with the fancy shock mount and the cigarette lighter adapter and it like Velcro to the dashboard. So stupid, but it worked.

Wendall Thomas (29:57.87)
All right, all that stuff.

It worked. And you don't care. I mean, that's the thing. You don't care. If you can hear the song, you don't care. I don't care. And I don't mind scratches and I don't mean I don't mind bad audio. If I am my dad, we get so mad at me because I could even barely hear a sweep for Judy Blue Eyes. How scratchy it was. I would not let him change the channel. Like I was like, no, no, you cannot.

Chad (30:01.456)
Yeah. Right.

Chad (30:08.046)
Yeah.

Chad (30:23.234)
That's great. So let me Speaking of album cuts. I just wanted to bring up a few that were on your list that I that I wanted to go through real quickly So also a soul fan you can see my stacks t -shirt. I just watched that documentary. I don't know if you've seen it yet, but it was fabulous Yeah Yeah, I'll link it I forget I think it was on I want to say Hulu

Wendall Thomas (30:32.334)
Okay.

Wendall Thomas (30:43.726)
This stacks. I haven't seen it yet. Watch it.

Wendall Thomas (30:52.078)
Great. I just had Hulu back. So that's probably why I didn't know about it, because I had dropped Hulu until the bear was coming back.

Chad (30:52.717)
I forget what streaming service it was on.

Chad (30:59.917)
I do that too. We play musical streaming services. But yeah, my wife and I watched it and we were just like, just blown away by it. It was so well done, such good storytelling. And the production was great. And, you know, yeah, I've always loved that kind of music. And I have a connection to Steve Cropper and Duck Dunn because of the Blues Brothers. So, yeah.

Wendall Thomas (31:12.91)
good, I can't wait.

Wendall Thomas (31:21.678)
UGH

Those guys, those guys are just like gods.

Chad (31:28.559)
they're total gods. So one of the songs on your album, cut of the day document that you sent me was Think by Aretha Franklin, which was obviously featured in the movie. And yeah. And by the way, anybody listening or viewing, if you're as much of a Blues Brothers aficionado as I am, please reach out. I'm looking for somebody to do an episode, maybe even two, because I think it's going to spill into two episodes to go through the movie and the music, because I really think it's it's such an important.

Wendall Thomas (31:37.806)
in the police project.

Chad (31:58.512)
cultural landmark, you know, it's sort of revitalized, maybe not revitalized, but maybe maybe familiarized, you know, a new generation with Aretha Franklin, Ray Charles, James Brown, John Lee, John Lee Hooker was in the movie briefly, Sam and Dave. Yeah. So, yeah, it's going to do an episode about that. So so that's on Connected. The other one was I didn't know that Glenn Campbell and Bobby Gentry did an

Wendall Thomas (32:14.894)
and cave, all those kinds. Yeah.

Chad (32:28.432)
album together.

Wendall Thomas (32:29.794)
my God, now I have, well, I'm not gonna be able to find it because it's in the other room, but the cover, did you look it up? my God, and we had that in our house. Like my dad bought that for him and my mom, and I was just, I played it all the time. It was really good.

Chad (32:35.822)
Yes, I did.

Chad (32:44.111)
Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to have to listen to the whole thing, but the track that you singled out was Let It Be Me. And I forgot who did that originally. Was it the Everly Brothers?

Wendall Thomas (32:53.166)
Yeah, it was the Amarillo Brothers.

Chad (32:54.159)
Yeah, OK. Love that song and the two of them together. It was just like, holy shit, didn't know this was a thing, you know. So that was great. And another country. And again, like, you know, you said that you're sort of into this whole like, you know, California country kind of thing. But Emily Lue Harris doing How High the Moon. How brilliant. Yeah, so good. Yeah. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (33:11.03)
my God, it's so good, isn't it? It's so beautiful. It's that little stuff in Grappelli thing. It's great. And also, well, and it's the only other thing she did that was kind of like that was Mr. Sandman, which is, but yeah, I know how high the moon is. It's great. And it has that little ending. Like it's so good. I'm so glad you liked that one. Yeah, that whole record is amazing.

Chad (33:23.63)
Yes.

Chad (33:30.478)
Yeah. Yeah.

And then another one.

that sort of ties back to what we were talking about earlier with musical compatibility with our spouses. Before my wife and I were actually dating, when I felt like I was interested in her. And I mean, like it wasn't like I had to think hard about it because I definitely was attracted to her. But, you know, she was sort of sort of dating somebody and, you know, wasn't sure whatever, like what was going to happen and didn't know she liked me. But I made her a CD because we had connected over just music in general.

Wendall Thomas (33:41.998)
Hahaha.

Chad (34:05.919)
and track one on the mix CD was I Want To Be Your Lover by Prince.

Wendall Thomas (34:11.918)
I love that song. So that whole record again, unbelievable. The first thing.

Chad (34:17.228)
Yeah.

Yeah. So it worked. Apparently it worked because, you know, here we are. We'll be. We're coming up on 20 years in December ourselves. So, you know, I guess I guess I did the right move. I thought it was a baller move.

Wendall Thomas (34:20.398)
I know. Well, I love that song so much.

Because you are.

Wendall Thomas (34:33.806)
I mean, it's a great move. Obviously it was a great move, but that's the thing, you got to swing wide. You know what I mean? And you got to do that in love. And otherwise, you know, I met my husband and we had one night stand in Ballygally, Northern Ireland, and I flew back to LA the next day. And then we went up having our second date. He came over and we drove to San Francisco. And then we got married in Vegas. But you know what I mean? Like you have to be brave and...

Chad (34:38.476)
That's it. That's it.

Chad (34:53.484)
Wow, so cool. Nice. Amazing.

Wendall Thomas (35:01.934)
If you're not brave in love, then it's not going to work.

Chad (35:05.133)
Yeah, totally. You just have to be open to the universe, right? That's what my sister used to tell me. My sister is a wise woman. So speaking of great segues, speaking of like open to the universe and the universe playing silly games, let's talk about the Cyd Redondo novel series, mystery series of yours. I was going to say, I, you know, again, I met you sort of, you know, virtually and then saw that you were, you know,

Wendall Thomas (35:20.974)
Okay.

Okay, well, I, go ahead, ask me whatever you want.

Chad (35:33.964)
author of these novels and I'm like, let me go grab one and see what it's about. And 50, 60 pages in, I was literally laughing out loud. I was like, my God, this is great. So I burned through the other three books, like, you know, right in short order. And just wanted to talk about how you came up with the character and how you came up with the locations and the storylines. Maybe give me a bit of history.

Wendall Thomas (35:59.854)
Cool. I love to talk about it. They've been very fun books to write. So originally, I mean, I am and actually I will show you because this is the only copy of the actual book cover from Romancing the Stone of Joan Wadd, which my husband got for me as a present. Sorry, Barry just fell down. But anyway, so I always loved Romancing the Stone.

Chad (36:16.588)
wow, yeah!

Wendall Thomas (36:29.07)
And I'm a screenwriter as well. I mean, I was a screenwriter for a long time. So I really wanted to write the next Romance in the Stone. So I wrote, and I didn't, but I didn't know what to do. And then I was sitting one day and I just saw this woman in my head and she was tiny and she had a mini skirt and stilettos. And she had one of those like bracelet, she had like flea market bracelets from here to here. You know, it was kind of like.

Chad (36:55.5)
Okay, yeah.

Wendall Thomas (36:57.262)
And some guy comes out of the jungle with a machete and she just goes and wax him. And there she was. Like she just came to life and I didn't know who she was or whatever. So I kind of, she started talking to me and then I figured out she was a travel agent and that would work for kind of adventure. So I want it. And then, you know, you try to figure out like, I can't go to Columbia. I've got to go somewhere else. Let's look at other places people might want to go.

So I started out with this idea of a travel agent who'd never been anywhere and where would be a place that she would always have wanted to go and it would be Africa. So I started doing research on African crime and the thing that just kept coming up over and over again was obviously animal poaching and endangered species and trafficking and all that stuff. And so all the books have an animal endangered species, wildlife crime kind of, you know.

Chad (37:42.955)
Right.

Wendall Thomas (37:53.582)
element to all of them. So I felt like that I could get away with the 80s vibe as long as I had something a modern horror going on. So anyway, it was a script first. It was called Animal Instincts, which is such a porn title. So I just changed it for the book. Yeah. And then I was very lucky to get a two book deal. So I had to figure out the second book. And we had just recently been to Tasmania. And

I loved Australia, I did some work in Australia and they wanted a cruise ship book so I thought okay, let's try to meld those two. And then I did a lot of research, that book focuses around for everyone but you who's read it, focuses around the Tasmanian tiger, the thylacine, which are supposedly functionally extinct but they're still a huge community of people who still think they're alive and are constantly turning in videos on YouTube and stuff all the time, so it's interesting to me.

And then I had during the beginning of the pandemic, I had to write about somewhere I'd been because I couldn't go anywhere. So I had been to London like 25 times. So I knew that I could write London. And so and then you have to find the animal. And I looked up at that time. Now, thank God the little creatures have fallen down the list a little bit. But at that time, the number one most endangered creature in the UK was the hazel dormouse.

Chad (39:22.123)
Wow.

Wendall Thomas (39:23.758)
So they're a little bit better now because they've got a little, they put some of them on the aisle man stuff. But anyway, so I figured she could put that she has a rather large purse so she could probably keep the Dory Mouse in her purse. And then I had a lot, I always wanted, I was fascinated by Bali always. And I have three friends who've lived there. And then.

All the books are set in 2006, 2007 right now because I wanted to set them before the Muslim ban and all of that other stuff so I could kind of still deal with travel. So they're set in that period. And then when I was trying to figure out where else I wanted to set the fourth book, I realized that Eat, Pray, Love had just come out. And I was like, what a nightmare for travel agents. This is the idea, right? You know, because so I decided that I would set this book in Bali.

Chad (40:09.227)
Yes.

Wendall Thomas (40:17.582)
And then when I looked it up, the Bolly Starling, there were only seven Bolly Starlings in 2007 that were in the wild. And I was like, okay, that is my animal. So I kind of figure out the place first, then the animal, then the problem for Cyd. Like what gets her there? So that's kind of the way the process goes, I think. Cause the hardest thing for me in the book, because she is very dominated by her family. She lives in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. And she's so...

The hardest thing is to legitimately get her to leave Bay Ridge. Like that's the hardest story problem that I have every time is like, what is bad enough? You know what I mean? To get her to actually run away. So that's kind of how the book goes. And again, it's very much inspired by Romancing the Stone and Charade and bringing up baby and that kind of zany, you know what I mean? Screwball mysteries. And I was unbelievably lucky that this year the new one, Cheap Trills, which is somewhere.

Chad (40:51.307)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (40:56.363)
Right.

Chad (41:09.195)
Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (41:17.326)
Actually one best comic mystery of 2023. So that's I thank you, but I can't I still can't believe it. So I have to say it out loud. Yeah, so Cyd and I'm I'm not I mean, I think the only thing I share with Cyd is a sense of crippling responsibility. Like that's both of our flaws, but she's not like me at all. Like she does. She's totally into fashion and she's totally into like.

Chad (41:21.868)
Yes, congratulations.

Chad (41:27.275)
Hahaha!

Wendall Thomas (41:47.886)
mid -range fashion and she's a bargain hunter and she's very, she's very different than I am. It's not even like she's an alter ego. She just exists somehow in my head and I don't even know, you know, I mean, my husband says there's maybe more, we are more in common than I think, but I don't know. I just, I like to write her, but her voice just comes through me. I can hear her talking and the...

So that makes it fun to write the book. So, you know, it's I have to do a lot of research for all of them. And doing mysteries is a little bit complicated in terms of the plotting. But her, like she just comes. So that's, you know, I'm lucky.

Chad (42:31.979)
Yeah, her personality really sort of weaves itself into everything. And I love how you've developed her throughout the four books because she stays the same. She stays very true to her character. But you can sort of see her evolving in certain ways, I guess, you know, which is great. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (42:48.91)
Yeah, I hope so. It's hard, you know, the mystery character part, some people don't want them to ever change, so they come back to the book, you know, but if you can inch it, you can get away with it, I think.

Chad (42:54.379)
Right.

Chad (42:58.828)
Sure. So a couple of things that I had taken notes about.

preparation for this because I remembered a few points in the book that were sort of personal fun for me. Atlantic City, the whole convention thing. I mean, it's the obvious choice if she's in Bay Ridge, right? Like, you know, where do Realtors have their conventions? It's got to be AC. But I was born and raised there. So talking about Atlantic City. Yeah. And then, you know, one of the things she carries in her purse, not to give anybody a spoiler, but, you know, she has these Atlantic City shot glasses. And I was like, my God, we had those in my house when I was a kid.

Wendall Thomas (43:21.166)
in the light city.

Chad (43:33.933)
You know, like...

Wendall Thomas (43:38.798)
Now, they double because obviously they're shot glasses, but they also double, they fit perfectly for listening through walls because they fit right on your ear. And so she uses them for that too. Sometimes she needs to know what's going on.

Chad (43:45.867)
That's right. That's right.

Chad (43:51.211)
Yeah.

I wish I knew that trick when I was a kid, you know, I think I didn't didn't realize that those were perfectly suited for small ears, you know. And then you've got a character named Dolores who works at an embassy. I forget which novel this was in, which which book, but she's from Teaneck. And I laughed at that because I drive into Manhattan a few days a week for work and I drive right through Teaneck on Route four every day. So it's like.

Wendall Thomas (43:59.822)
for small years they are the rookie.

Wendall Thomas (44:11.182)
I'm sorry.

Wendall Thomas (44:19.374)
I know it's been, I have two of my best friends, one from college and one who lives out here are all from New Jersey. So I used to go visit them and their families. And one of my friends still, her family still lives in Demarest. Is there all the time? Yeah. So I love and Route 9, like all of those things I love. I love all that stuff.

Chad (44:32.396)
Okay. Yeah. Okay. I know where Demerist is.

Chad (44:39.691)
Yeah, I just love the East Coast connection, you know, and I think it's great. And the last thing that I wanted to mention, just sort of, you know, sort of plot points or whatever from the book is you had a reference to the mixed up files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler. One of your favorite books as a kid, because it was sure mine.

Wendall Thomas (44:57.806)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely. And I don't even still want to like spend the night in the Museum of Art. It's not the best thing ever. I read a rom -com, a script where the couple does that. Yeah, yeah, they get in trouble all the time, but that's one of the things they do. They actually sneak in and spend the night there because who doesn't want to do that? Right.

Chad (45:05.099)
Yes.

Chad (45:10.987)
wow.

Chad (45:18.027)
That's amazing. Yeah, well, every every time I go there to this day as an adult, I look for places and be like, I could probably get away with hiding there until they close. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (45:26.414)
I know. Don't you feel like it's still possible? I think that was one of the geniuses of that book. You know what I mean? I mean, it has so many levels that book, because when you think about how she feels and looking after her brother, like there's so many things, levels and the automat, all of that stuff. But I feel like, you know, she just tapped into this thing that anybody would want to do. And that's obviously totally stolen for a night at the museum. But it's the same principle, right?

Chad (45:32.043)
Yeah.

Chad (45:53.515)
for sure. Right.

Wendall Thomas (45:56.302)
Because who wouldn't want to do that? It's the coolest thing ever.

Chad (45:59.404)
It is the coolest thing ever speaking of automat by the way another great documentary if you were any of our viewers and listeners haven't seen it There was a documentary that came out about the automat and they sort of went back through the history You know sort of a short bio of horn and hard art who were the ones that started it and Really great interesting piece. I went once as a kid. My parents took me to New York on a trip I must have been ten years old. So this is like I don't know eight

And I think there was only maybe one or two automats left in the city at that point. Yeah. And.

Wendall Thomas (46:30.478)
Yeah.

Yeah, there's not a lot left, but they were still around. And it's hilarious how much they feature in early rom -coms, late 40s rom -coms. They're in there all the time. Have you ever seen Easy Living? Huge scene in that. It was written by Preston Surges, but he didn't direct it, but it's Jean Arthur. And it's mostly noted by the fact that it opens with Jean Arthur riding on a double -decker bus and a meat coat lands on her head. So.

Chad (46:40.299)
Yes.

Chad (46:44.555)
No.

Wendall Thomas (46:59.822)
one of my favorites. But anyway, there's a huge like fight scene in the automat with pies coming in and out and all. It's great. It's really good.

Chad (47:07.307)
I need to go watch that. That sounds like a lot of fun. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (47:10.158)
That's good.

Chad (47:12.267)
All right. So let's let's let's pivot a bit, right? We're talking about Cyd. We've covered some of our musical topics. Let's tie the two together. And this is how I sort of pitched you to come on the podcast in the first place. This is going to be fun, I think. I have this thing and, you know, clearly you do, too, of like connecting music with with different things, whether it's, you know, a book or life experience or whatever it might be. So I thought it might be fun to pick some songs that were representative of not only Cyd, her

but the books right and you know different things so and the idea was not to reveal them to each other until now so well how do you want to do this do you want to do book by book do you want to do okay all of mine first okay all right cool so

Wendall Thomas (47:49.71)
No, we don't know. We don't know them. And I cannot wait near yours.

Wendall Thomas (47:57.07)
I want you to do yours first. You do yours first. All of you first.

Chad (48:04.782)
called me Captain Obvious, but for the first book, since it's set in Tanzania, I went with Africa by Toto. I feel like it's something Cyd would listen to and sing along with in her Galaxy 500.

Plus they mention Mount Kilimanjaro, which is in Tanzania. So there's the connection. And then I was like, you know, I know some African artists. I worked for a nonprofit for a few years back in 2008 that did a lot of work in Sub -Saharan Africa. So I got to do a lot of interesting work in places like Democratic Republic of Congo, you know, and Burundi and a few other countries where we were piloting, like

satellite networks and that kind of stuff. Never really connected with anything with Tanzania. So like, you know, I said, let me go look up music from that era, 2006 in Tanzania, what was popular. So there's this whole genre of Tanzanian popular music called bongo flavor. New to me. And I found a couple of playlists on Spotify. And I think one of the biggest artists is called Ali Kiba. And the song is called Cinderella. It's off of his album from 2006.

Wendall Thomas (49:17.454)
perfect.

Chad (49:19.439)
So I figured maybe Cyd could have heard that playing in a market stall or something or in a car when she was in Dahr. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (49:25.582)
I love that.

I love that.

Chad (49:30.798)
All right. So that's book one. I did two songs per book. So book two, I have Tasmania, the name of the song by a band called Pond. Didn't know this band, didn't know the song. Was searching Spotify for literally just searching for the word Tasmania to see what came up. And this was like the first hit. So I played it. It's really actually a good song. So there's that. And then I thought it might be fun to again, continue the thread with an artist from that region. So I found.

an article that listed some contemporary Tassie as they call them artists and there's a artist named Maddie Jane and the song is called No Other Way. It's just a fun song it's like an upbeat sort of guitar driven song and I just love it so yeah it's on the playlist.

Wendall Thomas (50:13.39)
Yeah, I know, Maddy Jane.

Wendall Thomas (50:17.934)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (50:21.261)
All right. Moving on to book three and moving on to England. I, you know, again, I went with like the first song was the title of the place where the story takes place. Right. So it's England by the band called the National. I've heard of them. I'm peripherally familiar with with their music. But now, you know, I've actually sat and listened to a whole one of their songs. I like it. And then for the sort of story tie in, I went with Jack the Ripper by Screaming Lord Such and the Savages.

Sort of a sort of a novelty song from the 60s like a surf rock kind of you know in the vein of like Monster Mash

Wendall Thomas (50:51.374)
You

Wendall Thomas (50:57.71)
That's great. Wait, then tell me to band again, screaming lord. Great.

Chad (51:00.781)
Screaming Lord Such, S -U -T -C -H and the Savages. And I'll link that. I made a playlist for this on Spotify, so I'll link that in the show notes and I'll send it to you, Wendall, afterwards. But yeah, just a great fun song. And I actually had that song. I had this this Halloween playlist that I would have on in the background when I was like handing out Candidate Trick or Treaters and stuff. And it was on there already. So it's like, all right, that's an obvious one. I already know that song. All right. Last book, Indonesia, named with a song by

Wendall Thomas (51:07.726)
Okay, great.

Chad (51:30.69)
Lamont Landers, artist I did not know of until a couple days ago and love him. Great voice, very soulful kind of music. And, you know, I just again searched, found something I hadn't heard before it play and fell in love. All right. Last one. This was the most fun one, I think. The song is called Starling. It's by Tori Amos.

Wendall Thomas (51:57.774)
Chad (51:58.512)
And if there was ever an artist that the Eat, Pray, Love Bali tourists were listening to on repeat, it has to be Tori Amos.

Wendall Thomas (52:04.718)
I'm sorry.

Wendall Thomas (52:09.87)
That's so very true. That's so true Hilarious. I love that. I actually really liked Tori Amos, but there is there is an April of element To her fans, at least

Chad (52:17.167)
Me too.

Chad (52:22.091)
For sure. Yeah, so what are yours?

Wendall Thomas (52:27.47)
Well, see, it's real. I have to kind of explain. So, Cyd, because she's fictional, you know, whatever, it's a little bit more constructed than that. So, she's very overprotected by her family. So most of her, almost all of her playlist, at least the songs I'm giving here, are family, were influenced by her family, by her overprotective family or parts of family that are missing. So she has...

Uncle Leon is her cool uncle. He worked for the Natural History Museum in New York as a taxidermist. But when he was in the mid to late 60s, he actually worked for the Natural History Museum in London. So he was in Carnaby Street and he was like, so he's total, total stones, total beetles, total all of that. So he, he would sing, he would sing her to sleep and he would sing, you know,

Don't sleep in the subway, Tula Clark as well. That was his little thing. But anyway, so he loved the stone. So he would always dance around in the living room with her to Jumping .Flash. But then when she was like 11, she snuck out and went to see the Whippy Goldberg version of the movie Jumping .Flash. And she heard Aretha, her version with Keith Richards. And so that is what she, that's her driving music. Like she will be.

Chad (53:44.111)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Chad (53:50.159)
Yes.

Wendall Thomas (53:54.606)
blasting that over the Verizon and Nehru bridge. Like Jumping Jack Flash by Aretha, that's one of them. So she also, her dad died when she was four and he had one album in the house and it was Stevie Wonder's signed seal delivered. And that's the one where he's coming out of the box, right? And so because she also loved the Beatles, her uncle,

her favorite song from that record is We Can Work It Out, his version of We Can Work It Out, which is great. So that's number two, because that's her dad and her uncle together. And then her dad was also an extra in Saturday Night Fever, which actually was shot set and shot in Bay Ridge. So Stayin' Alive is number three in her playlist. But then it was like, how can I connect?

Chad (54:24.046)
good one. Yeah.

Chad (54:33.87)
Right.

Bay Red ship.

Wendall Thomas (54:46.382)
to her as a character if she doesn't have any of my musical. I mean, I love all the songs, but you know what I mean? Like how can I? And so I was like, she lives in a house that's almost all men. Like, so how could I possibly possibly like have her like Linda Ronstadt or have her like, you know what I mean? And then I figured it out. So little, little Cyd is digging through like the garbage and she finds four records with no sleeves, right?

and she just takes them. And it's Linda Ronstadt's, Hastein' Down the Wind, which is here, if you recall that record. And it's Harley Simon's, No Secrets. And it's Buckingham Nicks. And then it's Joni Mitchell's, For the Roses, because she's naked inCyde. So her brother, her brother Jimmy has like,

Chad (55:26.702)
Yes, yes, by the cover, sure.

Chad (55:36.974)
Nice

Wendall Thomas (55:45.71)
just done the soft corporn covers and throwing the albums away. So that's, and so from those, she falls in love with all those artists. And so the other four would be Races Are Run from Buckingham Nicks. It would be You're So Vain, Carly Simon. It would be Carrie by Joni, because even though it's not from that record, it's exactly what you were thinking. The Winds Are In from Africa, last night I couldn't sleep first line, right? So she loves that song especially.

Chad (55:48.91)
Ha ha ha!

Chad (56:05.712)
Yes.

Chad (56:10.512)
Right?

Wendall Thomas (56:14.414)
And then Linda Ronstadt, she loves all the rock stuff, but her favorite song is Prisoner in Disguise, because she always feels like that. So that's the seven. But, you know, it's funny trying to figure out a fictional person's musical taste. You know what I mean? Well, anyway, that's my thoughts on Cyd. So, but when I figured out like the horny cousins, then I was able to make the work.

Chad (56:20.304)
Okay, right.

Chad (56:28.144)
Yeah. Right.

Chad (56:40.656)
That is amazing. Wow. Great.

Wendall Thomas (56:46.318)
But she's, yeah, I think that she, I think she loves music, but she hasn't, she had really limited, you know, there wasn't a lot. She had to kind of listen to whatever was in the house. So, yeah, it's funny how that happens. I think a lot of, I'm the oldest, so my, I think I influenced my siblings taste, but a lot of people learn from their older, like I wish I had an older sibling. My cousin Robin had the coolest, like she was the first time I ever heard.

Chad (56:59.12)
Right, sure. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (57:16.942)
the Almond Brothers at the Fillmore East. Cause she was like cooler. She was like four or six years older and she played that one day and I just couldn't even stand it. And I was little, you know? But so I didn't, she, I didn't have a lot of people doing that for me. So, but Cyd has, she has a lot of people older than she has now. There's some trickle down.

Chad (57:19.088)
great album.

Chad (57:36.466)
Right. Yeah, her whole family. Yeah, she's the baby, right? Of like the whole, all the cousins and stuff. Yeah, right. Right, right. That's right.

Wendall Thomas (57:39.214)
He's the baby of everybody and the only girl cousin, yeah.

Chad (57:44.754)
Yeah, I was lucky enough to have an older brother and an older sister and they were significantly older. I was an accident, let's face it. But my sister's 13 years. Yes. Well, that's what my parents always said. They swore it wasn't true. But, you know, I don't believe them. But my sister's 13 years older than me. My brother's 11 years older. So I was influenced by both of those. And my sister was into a lot of the same sort of stuff as you like that, you know, Southern California 70s, you know, like America and I mean, not California.

Wendall Thomas (57:51.898)
But I'm happy.

Wendall Thomas (58:12.238)
Yeah. Yeah.

Chad (58:14.707)
with the Doobie Brothers and, you know, there's just that that sort of stuff. And she's the one that turned me on to Steely Dan, probably not even on purpose because, you know, she worked in radio. And when I was like five or six years old and Josie had come out as a single from Asia, I had a promo 45. I still have it somewhere of Josie. And I played that song over and over again. Yeah. And, you know, little.

Wendall Thomas (58:20.878)
Wendall Thomas (58:36.59)
over and over and over. I love that. So that's how you got Steely Dan. I love that.

Chad (58:41.329)
That was my first Steely Dan record that I ever owned. And then when I was a little bit older, you know, she, you know, I mean, everybody heard the stuff on the radio, like, do it again. And, you know,

Wendall Thomas (58:45.294)
of

Chad (58:54.737)
really in the years and great songs. But I didn't really get introduced to their their back catalog or their album cuts until, you know, probably my early teenage years. And I can't remember which album might have been Asia. And I think I got a copy of Asia. And I mentioned Steely Dan to her knowing she liked them. And she was like, well, if you're into that album, you should listen to Goucho. And then, like, you know, royal scam. And like, she just gave me the whole discography to sort of go do homework on. And I just was like blown away, you know.

Wendall Thomas (59:23.662)
my God, I can't even to get all those at once because I bought Camp By Thrill when it came out. And then but I loved I love Real and in the years, but there's so many great tracks on that. And when I played in bars, you can't play Steely Dan as a solo artist like it's impossible. But I played dirty work. I figured it out. I figured out how to play it. And I sang dirty work. But yeah, to find all that stuff in this lyrics and I just can't even I love them all so much. And and I would find again, this is why I ruined.

Chad (59:24.691)
Yeah. Right.

Chad (59:37.265)
Yes.

Wendall Thomas (59:51.246)
Cause I love Michael McDonald too. I'm the first person to admit that I love him. And I love, love, love him, but I would always just play that little bit, that Broadway Duchess bit, you know what I mean? And I over and over and over that little tiny thing where he's saying, I just can't even. And Bad Sneakers, maybe my favorite. It's so hard for me to pick, but.

Chad (59:55.793)
Nothing wrong with that.

Chad (01:00:05.969)
Yes.

Chad (01:00:12.209)
Yeah.

Chad (01:00:18.161)
I love Bad Sneakers just because of where they were writing that album. You know, they were like over L .A. and they wanted to go back to New York. And that's what the album is pretty much about. Or, you know, most of it anyway. Right. So, yeah, love it.

Wendall Thomas (01:00:27.63)
You know, it's so great. No, they're just there. There's nobody like them. I can't. And it's I don't know. It's funny. Do people are people listening to them? Now you will know this like younger people. Do they get it? Good.

Chad (01:00:40.753)
Yes.

There was this whole sort of thing and it really peaked I think last summer and it's everybody was calling it the danisance where all these Gen Z kids and the younger end of the millennial kids were like discovering Steely Dan like I guess you know rating their Gen X and Boomer parents CD collections maybe I don't know but and you know at first I thought okay you know passing fancy you know maybe it was on TikTok or something you know whatever but it stuck and I think it's still sticking where a lot of

Wendall Thomas (01:00:49.038)
Good.

Wendall Thomas (01:00:58.606)
Right.

Wendall Thomas (01:01:11.214)
Yeah.

Chad (01:01:11.795)
of the you know and if you've watched previous episodes I have guests that are yeah I mean you know a few of them are like 26 28 and they know more about Steely Dan than I do you know it's just like holy shit.

Wendall Thomas (01:01:16.014)
You have a lot of younger guests. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:01:24.27)
No, I love that. I don't want them to disappear. You know what I mean? They're just too great and you can't, and they're up there with everybody, everybody important. You know?

Chad (01:01:28.593)
Yeah.

Chad (01:01:34.993)
Yes, I don't think they'll ever disappear, hopefully. I think every generation will eventually get there and get it.

Wendall Thomas (01:01:42.606)
I know I brought up Haley Jones earlier, but you've heard her version with Joe Jackson of Showbiz Kids.

Chad (01:01:52.657)
No, I don't think I have. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:01:54.514)
Okay, I will send you the link to that. It's great, actually. It's really good because we love Joe. I mean, how can you not love? I love, love, love Joe Jackson.

Chad (01:01:59.827)
Okay, yeah.

We love Joe Jackson. I saw him live in 2018 in New York. Yeah, he was and he sounded just like he sounded in the 80s. I mean, like his voice is still perfect. Yeah. Yeah, great show. Really great show. It was a small venue, so it was just like it was beautiful. Really, really great show. Yeah. Yeah, thank you.

Wendall Thomas (01:02:09.486)
wow.

Wendall Thomas (01:02:14.606)
It's funny, there are a couple of people, Todd Rangren's like that too, like he can still sing like that. It's amazing.

Wendall Thomas (01:02:25.454)
Yeah, I'll send you that track. You'll like it, I think. It's very funky. It's mostly bass, and then their voices is really good.

Chad (01:02:31.578)
Cool.

Wendall Thomas (01:02:34.222)
but yeah, but a lot of people can't cover them very well, so.

Chad (01:02:38.162)
Yeah, they're such a hard band to cover and yes, they play like really difficult jazz chords and voicings and stuff like that. But like just, you know, I think they have such a distinctive sound that that's why they're so hard to cover. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:02:49.71)
And it's also the delivery. The delivery is really hard to pull off, I think.

Chad (01:02:56.082)
Fagan sings like nobody else. Nobody sounds like him. And it's funny because he didn't want to be the lead singer. For years he was trying to get out of it. Eventually he just accepted it and was like, okay, I guess it's me. Because nobody else sings it the way I'm hearing it in my head, so I'll just do it myself. So yeah. really? No kidding. So cool. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:02:58.926)
Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:03:14.542)
Yeah, one of my senses is in a condo complex with David Palmer.

Wendall Thomas (01:03:22.254)
I know, I haven't met him, but apparently.

Chad (01:03:25.714)
poor guy got the short end of that stick.

Wendall Thomas (01:03:28.654)
I know he did some good vocals on that record though.

Chad (01:03:32.178)
He did. Yeah. Speaking of dirty work, by the way, if you see any live Steely Dan shows, they started to get to the point where they were bringing that song back into the set list, but they let the Danettes sing it. So Donald doesn't sing it because I guess it just was never really his song anyway, because, you know, Palmer sang it on the on the record. But yeah. So the Danettes actually sing lead. And it's just like the best thing ever. I was just I just.

Wendall Thomas (01:03:50.808)
I didn't have time. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:03:58.67)
wow, I would love to see that because I was watching the Dukes of September not long ago again because of course I bought that.

Chad (01:04:05.444)
yeah, of course, Michael McDonald's. And Buzz, by the way. Yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:04:08.558)
So there's no, it's a win -win -win. But yeah, I love all the people they get as backup singers, all three of them. It's just amazing.

Chad (01:04:13.552)
Hahaha.

Chad (01:04:17.904)
Yes. Yeah, I'll link. There's a there's one performance in which which one it is escaping me, but I'll find it where there's a fantastic performance of dirty work with the Danettes and I'll link it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, me too. Cool. Well, Wendall, anything else you want to cover? I think we've touched on a lot of stuff.

Wendall Thomas (01:04:32.11)
that would be great. I would love to see that because I love that song. It's heartbreaking.

Wendall Thomas (01:04:41.582)
No, I think we've done a lot of stuff. I'm just, I'm so happy. I'm so happy and honored to be on here because you know how I admire you. Cause you know more. I don't know how many Gen Z people know about Steely Dan, but you are my expert. So I know it touches you for me. And also because you sent me the eternal loop of time out of mine and I cooked my Thanksgiving dinner to that. That is when I was like, I love you.

Chad (01:04:56.336)
Hahaha.

Chad (01:05:06.736)
No, you didn't.

Wendall Thomas (01:05:10.67)
I did it. I played it all day. All day. And it made me so happy.

Chad (01:05:14.896)
I did the same thing. When I came across that, I was like, you know, first I was incredulous. I was like, who the hell made this and who? Yes, then like 10 minutes into it, I was like, this is the best thing ever. It's just it's just the yeah.

Wendall Thomas (01:05:20.162)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

Wendall Thomas (01:05:24.27)
And then you're like, thank you, a gene has made this.

Because if there's just enough variation in that song that it comes back right, it's perfect. It was great. I loved that. I was so happy that day.

Chad (01:05:38.352)
Excellent, well I'm glad to be of service.

Wendall Thomas (01:05:40.494)
I know. Well, that's good. OK, so thank you. And thank you so much for reading the books, because it was very kind of you to even buy the first one. You know, so I appreciate it.

Chad (01:05:48.433)
yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. And thank you for being on and hope to have you back in the future. Great. Thank you. Alrighty. Talk to you soon. You too. All right. Thanks. Bye.

Wendall Thomas (01:05:55.662)
Okay, great, I would love that. Thank you so much, Todd. Take care of yourself, have a good weekend.