Episode 19 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:00.558)
Hello and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. I'm joined this week by author, Roadhouse aficionado and fellow podcaster, Libby Cudmore. Hey Libby.

Libby (00:12.641)
Hi, how are you? I'm good.

Chad (00:14.37)
Good, how are you? It's nice to finally meet you and thanks so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate you being here.

Libby (00:20.341)
I appreciate you inviting me. This is just such an honor, and it's great to finally again look into your eyes.

Chad (00:29.462)
Well, we talked a bit, I think, on Twitter about the whole Swing Revival. And I know you're a huge Cherry Poppin' Daddies fan. And I recently sort of started revisiting some of that music and was listening to a lot of old Joe Jackson and Louis Jordan and, you know, just that sort of era. And then it hit me that I hadn't listened to some of the revival stuff in a long time. So I was like, you know, who'd be the perfect guest for this? And I can make an episode out of it.

Libby (00:37.174)
So huge.

Libby (00:57.722)
Well, thank you. It's like Roadhouse. It's one of my random niche passions where I feel... Like you know that movie yesterday where it's like he wakes up and nobody remembers the Beatles? I feel like that but it's 1990s swing revival. Like no, do we all forget this? And especially as I'm seeing all of this 90s stuff trending, like no, no.

Chad (01:11.511)
Yes.

Chad (01:14.798)
Ha ha.

Libby (01:20.577)
we ought to talk about Swing Revival. Cause it was such a weird and sort of magical time in the nineties, in that period where you could hear so much different music. Like you could go from like Dishwalla to the Cherry Poppin' Daddies, to Toad the Wet Sprocket, to Cypress Hill. Like you would hear them all on the radio. And I love that. And I miss that. It was like the last gasp of sort of radio or you didn't know what you were gonna hear next.

Chad (01:26.508)
It was.

Chad (01:42.922)
Yeah, oh me too.

Chad (01:49.322)
Right. Yeah, it could have been anybody. And the fact that they peppered some of this stuff in, and some of the younger generation were just hearing this type of music for the first time. I mean, my parents had Tony Bennett and Sinatra and Count Basie and Cab Calloway and all the classics and all the greats. But for me, hearing this stuff wasn't really new necessarily, but just the fact that it was redone, and it was redone so well in a lot of cases.

Libby (01:50.265)
So.

Libby (02:18.451)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (02:18.794)
you know, really made me enjoy sort of checking it out and listening to it back in the day.

Libby (02:24.289)
Yeah. And I mean, I grew up, my parents, my dad listened to sort of like classic sort of dad rock, the Beatles, the Who. Warren's Yvonne was a big one in my house. But, you know, a lot of my parents listen, my mom listened to folk music, like Bob Dylan, my mom listened to Jethro Tall. And so I didn't have this like this big band background. So hearing this for the first time, I think I heard Zoot Suit Riot on the radio in 1998 in Oklahoma City. And it was like, what is this?

it was like this new world opened up for me. And really, like, it was one of those albums that and Americana Deluxe by Big Pat Booty Daddy, which I heard in Jim McCumber's car in, like, probably that fall, we were in show choir together. And just, it was one of those, like, really transformative moments for me, like, hearing this, and I think, sort of shifted me.

or began to shift me on the trajectory to being the crime writer that I am. You could probably draw like a straight line between the cherry pop and daddy's and the shield. It gets a straight line.

Chad (03:28.15)
It ties in nicely, right?

Yeah, totally. It dovetails perfectly. But I guess the question is, and this may be a good jumping off point, how did this swing revival happen, right? Like how did this type of music sort of come back into vogue when it did in the mid-90s? I know, you know, and I'm sort of burying the lead. I know there's more to it and there's a deeper history, but you know, what happened that all of a sudden this got popular?

Libby (04:00.325)
theory. And I talked about this on one of my podcasts, The OST Party we did sort of a swing trilogy where we did the mask swingers and blast from the past, all which had sort of the big four bands on them. And I think grunge was, I mean, it was it was down and dirty. Obviously, it was kind of

Libby (04:30.049)
It was isolating in a lot of ways. And it was, I don't wanna say like Mopi because I feel like that really downplays it. I'm not an expert on grunge, but I feel like once Kurt Cobain died, there really was this push back to something completely different. And this desire to move away from now what was mainstream grunge. I mean, you could buy...

plaid flannels at the Gap, who I think that was kind of the end of it. It was starting to become mainstream, starting to become popular, but what you could find in thrift stores were these, you know, old 40s cocktail dresses, these pinstripe suits. And so the kind of like rebellious kind of punk thing would be to swing backwards to social dancing, to going out for cocktails. And we had cocktail culture sort of brewing underneath, people getting back into Martin Denny.

Um, who had, had you ever listened to Exotica? It's so great. It's deli-

Chad (05:33.65)
Oh yeah, and Esquivel and all that stuff. Yeah, oh, love it. Well, I was really into that whole cocktail culture thing for a bit, you know.

Libby (05:41.409)
I wanted to be, I was like 10. But I definitely remember like putting like Mountain Dew and martini glasses and thinking like, one day I will be fancy, like put a little maraschino cherry in there, like one day I will be fancy.

Chad (05:57.886)
It's funny you mentioned the gap as sort of, you know, mainstreaming grunge because I have a note that, you know, we'll talk about this later. But like, I feel like the gap maybe is like a culture killer. You know, I mean, when something gets commoditized, you know, that's sort of the signals the end of it. It's like jumping the shark, right?

Libby (06:09.878)
The gap is...

Libby (06:16.617)
Yes, the gap is the shark in which genres jump.

Or maybe the gap is maybe the music is the genre and the gap jumps or the shark is the genre and the gap jumps over it. I don't know.

Chad (06:23.011)
So...

Chad (06:32.654)
I think so. And I think that's the end of it, you know, in a lot of cases, as we'll see as we get to the end of the swing revival era. But we're talking a little bit before we hit record about how Ska, that whole revival sort of fit in the middle. And you had some pretty strong feelings on that. So how do you feel about Ska, Libby?

Libby (06:34.202)
Yeah.

Libby (06:49.361)
I'm out.

It's so weird because I will fight people and have fought people over swing revival. I get really mad and aggressive. It's the one area. You don't like Steely Dan. I don't give a shit. But when people are like, I don't like swing, I'm like, well, is it because you're a misogynist or because you don't know any better? I do find, and actually Steve Perry from the Cherry Poppin' Daddies has a quote to back me up on this. I have a theory that...

guys who don't like swing. Like every guy I know who's like given me shit about liking swing revival is a misogynist. And I'm not saying that like, oh, like has demonstrated misogyny, has demonstrated issues with women. And so I feel confident saying that, but actually, well, we'll get to Steve. I have so much to say about him. But my thing with Scar,

it's really goofy to me. Like, and I'm not talking about the specials, I'm not talking about, um, you know, the earlier band's English beat. I'm talking third wave, so the boss tones, no doubt. Uh, real big fish. They're goofy as hell, and it's music that is primarily enjoyed by white men, and I have a theory that it's the favorite music of day rapists.

Like every guy I've known who's super, super like way too into Scott, like super and like every guy in my generation likes some Scott. Like I like the Mighty, Mighty Boss tones. Uh, let's face it. I think the A side of that is a great album. Noise Brigade is a great song. Dickie Barrett, absolute nut job. I should probably be sent to the moon, but I'm just like, it's fine. Sellout is a fine song. Like they're fun, but.

Libby (08:43.613)
I feel like actually this, some of the Swing Revival, especially bands like the Daddies tackled issues harder than like the ska bands who claimed they were like, you know, a lot of the, you know, like, um, the Mighty Boss tones are like racism is bad. And you know, meanwhile, Steve Perry's over there with the Daddies just spinning all this beautiful poetry about like the fall.

of the American Dream, like on Master and Slave. Everyone's just like, yeah, people shouldn't do drugs. Okay. Like another drinking song versus Drunk Daddy, they're in two separate universes. So no, Scott is, Scott is silly. But to show you like sort of how much I love the Daddies, they were playing at the Supernova Scott Fest, which is nine hours from where I live. And I was like, I could go.

Chad (09:27.778)
Yeah, oh for sure.

Libby (09:42.705)
I'm like, no idiot, you're not going to be around a bunch of sky dudes. And I saw, I saw them performing. Um, they'd had a video of them performing Don Quixote from, uh, kids on the street, which is actually more of their grunge album and is an amazing album. But they, um, like I'm watching Steve Perry, my God, he's so handsome. He's got such good energy. He's such a good person. And then it like pans to the all male crowd. And there was like a bunch of middle-aged dudes.

skanking in a circle and the level of sadness I felt. Just like so sad. It took all my enjoyment and just like took it away from me.

Chad (10:10.35)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (10:19.874)
Put that up against the sad factor of old white guys at a Steely Dan show. Like, where does it fit in that hierarchy?

Libby (10:28.133)
Well, Steely Dan, old white guys are required by law to go to Steely Dan shows, like at least once in their life. It's like written into some sort of bylaw somewhere. I will say, Steely Dan is probably the concerts that I have been spoken down to at the most. Like, I got really, I had one guy confuse.

Chad (10:49.846)
mansplained and everything else.

Libby (10:54.413)
He's like, yeah, it's a shame Donald Fagen died. I'm like, it was Walter Pecker who died. He's like, no, I'm pretty sure it was Donald Fagen. And then Donald Fagen walks out on stage. Okay, bro. That, yeah, that's cool. I was there the night they played the second arrangement, but you're right, I know nothing about Steely Dan. I'm just a girl. I face a lot of like misogyny and the kind of music that I like. It's rough. Yeah.

Chad (11:04.186)
Oh, I'm so sorry, that's terrible.

Chad (11:11.081)
haha

Chad (11:17.89)
That sucks. And, you know, apologies on behalf of my misguided gender, but, you know, um, yeah.

Libby (11:24.385)
Wait a minute, you wear checkered vans!

Chad (11:28.294)
Yeah, exactly.

Libby (11:28.589)
I'm gonna have to do a checkered vans check just to make sure you're not trying to infiltrate my space.

Chad (11:31.202)
Ha ha

Chad (11:35.562)
No, no checker bands.

Libby (11:35.721)
You can see I rolled up prepared. I got the leopard print earrings. I got the Betty Page necklace. And I got my Cherry Poppin' Daddy's Bigger Life Era Daddy's Girl t-shirt. I came armed.

Chad (11:46.754)
I love it.

came prepared.

Libby (11:50.477)
Yeah, my Beetlejuice lipstick in Lydia. Generation Revolution X.

Chad (11:58.446)
I love that. I love Revolution X. That's just the name. It's evocative. So let's rewind a little bit because, you know, as we know, the four, the big four swing revival bands, at least two or three of them really got a start way before any of the swing stuff actually happened, right? And like you said, they've done other styles of music.

Libby (12:02.753)
Mm-hmm.

Libby (12:20.655)
Yes.

Chad (12:25.618)
Royal Crown review, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, they kind of came out of this punk scene in Southern California in like the late 80s, right?

Libby (12:33.985)
Yes. Royal Crown Review started in 1989 with Eddie Nichols, who's a fascinating and really kind of underwritten character in the scene. He's, I guess, kind of the bad boy of it. And, you know, he has this 1930s gangster patter and uses that throughout the Royal Crown Reviews.

sort of tenure. But yeah, sort of on the same scene was Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, fronted by Scottie Morris. And they were a bunch of sort of swing nerds that met at camp. And so Royal Crown Review is sort of the bad boys. And Big Bad Voodoo Daddy are sort of the jazz nerds. Cause their stuff is really like, if you listen to Americana Deluxe, it's like, it's fun. It's like, you can really sort of swing dance to it. It's again, like I sort of compare it.

Royal Crown Revue is Sin City. Like Frank Miller is Sin City. It's pastiche, but it's really good pastiche. And Big Bad Voodoo Daddy is Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Like it's still, it's great. It's wonderful, but it's a little bit goofy and it's a little more lighthearted and it's like family friendly. So.

Chad (13:39.944)
Okay

Chad (13:49.29)
Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Chad (13:54.19)
Yeah, right. It's yeah, it's a little higher level. Right, exactly. And it's funny, I think they had approached, I think it was Royal Crown review to do music for swingers. And I think they either weren't available, or there's some something reason why they couldn't do it. So Big Bad Voodoo Daddy got the gig instead. And that sort of rocketed them into the mainstream a little bit, I feel like.

Libby (14:17.213)
Yes, because Royal Crown Review had done that scene in swingers and in the mask, they had done the Hey Pachuko dance scene in 1994 and that sort of kicked off the kind of mainstream because it was mostly confined to the west coast at that point. They had a standing gig at the

you know, LA cocktail culture was really a part of the scene. And, uh, but if we weren't hearing it as much over here in the, on the East coast or in sort of middle America and the mask brought that to a wider audience. But, um, big, I want to say, let me check cause I have a note on this. So Royal Crown Review was actually out. They couldn't make their Brown Derby gig. So they asked Big Bad Voodoo Daddy to sub. And eventually, you know, cause they had gotten really big off Mugsie's move. And Big Bad Voodoo Daddy kind of took their spot. So there's like a little bit of a rivalry there.

And John Favreau, you know, got them to perform You and Me in the Bottle Makes Three tonight. And Go Daddy-O in swingers. And the end is...

Chad (16:36.558)
That was my first real exposure to this revival.

Well, I mean, I wasn't aware of swingers because it was largely a box office flop. I don't think it played anywhere. I probably didn't even know it was a thing. And then I remember going to Raleigh, North Carolina to visit a friend and it was like, we didn't feel like going out and we went to the video store dating myself and picked up a tape and it was swingers. And it was like, you know, what's this? Oh, this looks different. Let's give this a whirl. So we, you know, went back to her apartment and we plugged it in and sat down

Libby (17:00.677)
Uh-uh.

Chad (17:11.716)
watched it and we were like, this is amazing. I had no idea what it was about or like what to expect. And we both like instantly fell in love with the whole idea of the scene as well as the music, you know, and Vince Vaughn first time I'd seen Vince Vaughn, you know, he's just incredible.

Libby (17:28.761)
He's so hot in that movie. Like I wasn't prepared for it because I've always known like sort of like, I don't know, like early 2000s Vince Vaughn. And I know I had seen Swingers in college and didn't remember a whole lot about it, but I do remember guys saying, you know, your money baby, not necessarily to me. I'm sure one guy said it. And in fact, I could think of somebody who did say it. And let's just say he was really in the sky.

Chad (17:30.978)
Ha ha.

Libby (17:57.497)
But we went and rewatched it as part two of OST Party's Swing trilogy. That movie does not hold up. Do not watch Swingers again. It does not hold up. It is not good.

Chad (18:06.046)
It does not. Ha ha ha.

Chad (18:12.103)
I rewatched it in preparation for this because I was doing my research, like you were taking notes. And does it hold up? No. There's still some funny moments. Yeah. And the funny thing is people are like, oh, it's all about swing stuff. No, it's not. There's maybe like 10 minutes of music and dancing in the whole movie, right? I mean, it's...

Libby (18:21.963)
Oh yeah!

Libby (18:31.373)
Yeah, and like I always thought, is I couldn't remember the whole, I couldn't remember all of it, but I remember them being in Vegas and I remember him standing on the table and yelling, your grownup and your grownup and your grownup. I forgot that the Las Vegas portion is only about 15 minutes of the movie. Like they spend more time in Las Vegas than Beavis and Butt-Head 2 America, than they do in Swingers.

Chad (18:58.622)
Yeah, and that whole scene is just him just being, you know, like, I don't know, I can't even describe it. Like I think back then it was like, you know, a different kind of funny. Now looking back, it's a little cringy funny, you know?

Libby (19:14.805)
It's, yeah. That said, do you know what movie that director Doug Liman went on to make?

Chad (19:24.039)
No.

Libby (19:24.921)
He made the Fraud House remake, which means he is public enemy number one in my household.

Chad (19:28.846)
Oh, don't even say that word on my podcast Roadhouse remake. I watched it. I hate watched it. I hate watched it Libby I put it on my wife and I because I wanted to see how bad it was really gonna be. You know, my first

Libby (19:35.645)
I'm just, I'm very angry. Why did you do that?

Libby (19:46.277)
How was it?

Chad (19:50.238)
reaction was Jake Gyllenhaal. But then again, my first reaction when I became aware of the original Roadhouse, I think, I don't think I saw it in the theater. I think I saw it when I came out on video back in the day. But I was like, Patrick Swayze as a tough guy? Like, I'm not feeling this. I had the same sort of vibe with, with what's his name with, I just said his name and I lost it. So I'm gonna have to edit this out now.

Libby (20:14.373)
Patrick Swayze, who died for your sins.

Chad (20:20.258)
Jake Gyllenhaal, so, you know, we put it on, we said, all right, let's give it 15 minutes and see if it's really that bad. And it was, but it was like, you couldn't stop watching, it was almost like a car crash, you know? Ha ha ha.

Libby (20:21.599)
Oh, Drake Gyllenhaal.

Libby (20:34.893)
No, I will not. I know I will not allow that in my space. Um, but what's funny is, you know, going back to swingers and that scene that pivotal sort of dance scene, I is for as long as they had been on the scene, and they've been around since about 1994, they didn't release an album until the very tail end. And that's Americana deluxe, which doesn't actually appear.

on the album itself. It doesn't, you see it on the inside. This album, for as long as I knew, was called Big Bad Buddha Daddy, but down the edge there you can see Americana Deluxe. This was actually just recently reissued by Real Gone Music and I bought it immediately. So, because it is one of like the pivotal albums, like when we think of sort of the big four albums, would be Muggsy's Move,

Chad (21:20.526)
Of course.

Libby (21:30.469)
uh, Americana Deluxe, Zoot Suit Riot, and Hot. So, and actually I've seen... Yes. Um, I have seen Royal Crown, or not, I've seen Royal Crown of You. It was one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Um, I've seen Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. Um, the first show I saw them at was an outdoor show. It started to rain. My friend and I couldn't find any place to go. So the band was like, come on, come on. And like, we got in like their equipment trailer. I'm like hung out with the band for a few minutes till it stopped raining. Um.

Chad (21:34.862)
Hot by squirrel, not zippers.

Chad (21:56.886)
Ha ha ha.

Libby (21:59.873)
And then I've seen them two other times. They're wonderful. I've got a poster behind me. You see right back there, my Big Bad Voodoo Daddy signed poster.

Chad (22:08.951)
Yeah.

Cool.

Libby (22:13.761)
I told you I had show and tell.

Chad (22:15.983)
So I love showing talent. It's the best part of the podcast. Let's talk about squirrel nut zippers for a minute because I feel like they're kind of the outlier here for talking big four.

Libby (22:19.203)
Yeah

Libby (22:25.297)
They, yes, they kind of are. And they're sort of my, I don't wanna say Lee's favorite, cause I do love them, but they're a little outside what I really listen to. I think also I got their album much later. And it's funny, I think people forget how big Swing was, because Hell was a chart topper, and it was in everything for a while.

and they were on the Blast from the Past soundtrack, they were on... I think Hell was included in Three to Tango, which I have not seen. That was sort of one of the last movies to have an all swing soundtrack, including a version of Here Comes the Snake by the Cherry Poppin' Daddies, which uses a theremin. It's really cool. And it was also included in Monkeybone, which...

is another one of my like weird little passion. Like, no, you need to really like see it and think about it. So I'm a monkey bone defender. I'm a cutthroat Island defender and I'm a cool world defender and a Super Mario Brothers movie defender.

Chad (23:33.782)
Oh, cool world. Okay, I've never seen the Super Mario Brothers movie. But I'll have to check it out. But cool world. That movie, I sort of got there on the strength of the soundtrack because I heard the soundtrack way before I actually saw the movie. But love that. And it's really kind of hard to find. It's like obscure, you know.

Libby (23:39.189)
It's incredible. Great soundtrack.

Libby (23:52.997)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that soundtrack!

Yeah, and it was re-released on vinyl, I picked that up. But stylistically, it fit right into the sort of lounge revival and the revival of that type of animation. Soundtrack-wise, it really didn't. It's touching on a lot of Electronica, which was trying to make inroads in American radio and wasn't quite there.

Chad (24:13.037)
Right.

Libby (24:25.353)
It wouldn't be for until the back half of the 90s. But again, sort of ahead of the curve.

Chad (24:31.902)
Yeah, it was right. Yeah, it was there was a lot of like techno driven type stuff more stuff you'd hear in a club and not really on the radio for sure. Yeah.

Libby (24:40.405)
Yeah, um, so, oh, but uh, squirrel lezapers, um...

I, that album Hot, cause it's a little more like twenties and thirties. And so it doesn't quite fit into the sort of swing or jump blues style of the other three bands. Um, it's also, uh, female fronted, which I think is really cool. Um, and there's, there's a lot of talk about women in dance spaces, which we can touch on. Um, but this was the only one that was fronted by a woman.

Chad (24:55.533)
Yeah.

Libby (25:17.741)
Sort of those, of the big four.

Chad (25:18.39)
Yeah, and right. And I totally agree that they didn't really fit that mold. I think they got lumped in maybe a little unfairly. And they had such a broader range of old school Americana type music. And swing was just sort of one style that they touched on across a couple of different albums. But it wasn't their bread and butter.

Libby (25:27.088)
Mm-hmm.

Libby (25:45.197)
Yeah, they were a little more, I think, yeah, Americana. And then it was sort of almost like, lyrically, they were almost like Tom Waitzian. Like, they're very weird. Like, hell is a very weird pop song. And again, when you think of the 90s, like, you're hearing hell by the Squirrel and the Zippers on the radio. Like, that is a pop song that you were hearing on popular radio, just like, driving to the grocery store or to work or to the movies on a date. Like, you're hearing

Chad (25:55.167)
Yeah.

Libby (26:15.289)
that song. Like what a marvelous time we lived in. And we threw it all away. Well, the Telecommunications Act, you know, threw it all away.

Chad (26:19.541)
Yeah.

Chad (26:25.931)
Yeah.

Libby (26:26.681)
So the loss of Freeform Radio and the rise of iHeartRadio, which is basically the death star of pop music.

Chad (26:35.51)
Yeah, and Clear Channel taking over all the indie stations. I mean, it was a disaster. Yeah, I mean, I remember that and I still mourn the loss of just being able to... I mean, there's still some indie radio stations and you know, I live pretty close to Manhattan so I get a lot of like college radio and you know, there's a lot of universities around that are broadcasting and playing some cool stuff, but it's still not like it used to be, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. But it's not like it used to be.

Libby (26:38.467)
Yeah.

Libby (26:54.032)
Yeah.

Libby (26:57.781)
WFMU, yeah. Got mad love for WFMU. Yeah, you weren't, like there's no, I don't wanna say there's no money, but there's no reason to make albums that sound different anymore. There's just, there's no reason. There's no drive to it. Everything is very, very homogenized, which I can't stand. Like it's...

Chad (27:04.457)
Oh, for sure.

Libby (27:26.913)
actively makes me upset to think about. So I, and I, you know, I know that it's like a super millennial thing to say like music was better in the 90s, but it actually was because there was so much of it. Like I said, you could hear a song about what it's going to be like when you get to hell. Like that was on the radio. You know, it was just the only, I mean, I do love the squirrel and the slippers, but I feel like I'm

Chad (27:49.718)
Yeah, for sure.

Libby (27:56.793)
what has sort of fallen in their place and through no fault of their own. Like I'm not blaming those cool nut zippers, but I feel like a postmodern jukebox is trying to do what they're doing. And everyone in postmodern jukebox should be put in Guantanamo Bay. That's my presidential platform. Everyone in postmodern jukebox will be sent to Guantanamo Bay as your president.

Chad (28:10.743)
Yeah.

Chad (28:23.434)
Because they're doing this with covers and then like what's your beef?

Libby (28:30.065)
I just... One, I hate when they do... I just like, I hate it. It's taking what is like an incredible music tradition and making it into a fucking novelty.

And I really hate that. It's like, it's smug, twee, hipster bullshit. And as like a, like true hipster, like an eminent hipster, as Donald Fagen calls himself, I feel like I am an eminent hipster in that vein. I just, it's so corny. And it's also, I don't like when they take like hip hop.

Chad (28:45.628)
Yeah, I hear you.

Libby (29:10.361)
or anything like that and to like distill it for like safe white audiences. I really, I hate that. I just, I hate them. They just remind me of, again, like the worst people.

Libby (29:27.189)
I know some guys who would really, who from Binghamton University, who would have really liked postmodern jukebox.

Chad (29:27.574)
Yeah.

Chad (29:36.366)
I have to say I'm not a fan. I don't share your unabashed loathing, but I've never put them on and been like, oh, they're great. If they come on my YouTube feed or something, I'm like, eh, I skip them. You know?

Libby (29:49.641)
No, I just, I think they should all be sent to prison.

without trial.

Chad (29:56.194)
So, oh yeah, without trial for sure. So going back to talking about a female fronted band of this genre, have you heard of Lavee Smith and her Red Hot Skillet Lickers? This is a new artist to me.

Libby (30:10.985)
Yes. I don't know the context, which I heard of them. They might be on the blast from the past soundtrack. Let me check.

Chad (30:14.711)
Okay.

Chad (30:24.078)
Well, apparently she's been around since the 80s as well. I had never heard of her until I read one of the articles that I was going through in prep for this. I'm sorry.

Libby (30:36.793)
So, let me just double check, whoops, IMDB. Yeah, cause I have heard of her. And that's a band that I really, really need to get into, no, they were not on the blast from the past soundtrack. Because what I have heard, I'm like, this is fucking amazing. The Flying Neutrino, same thing. So, yeah.

Chad (31:01.32)
Not familiar with them either, okay.

Libby (31:05.349)
Actually, so the way the OST party defined a swing dance movie was that it had to have the swing dance scene. And the Flying Neutrinos actually have the swing dance scene in Blast from the Past with their song Mr. Zoot Suit. Double check that that's right. Yes, Ingrid Lucia and the Flying Neutrinos is the full name of the band. And they're great.

Chad (31:13.687)
Okay.

Chad (31:32.939)
Oh, love it.

Libby (31:34.717)
And that's like, there's a slight disappointment because the song playing before, when they go into the bar, is So Long Toots by the Cherry Poppin' Daddies. Like, no, give them their swing scene! And So Long Toots is a great song. It's off 2000s Soulcatti, which was the album, it failed and it broke up the band. It's a great album, Soulcatti is.

Chad (31:46.646)
I should have done it, yeah. Ha ha ha.

Libby (32:00.517)
deeply underrated album. All their albums are deeply underrated. They're an underrated band!

Chad (32:05.898)
Yeah, I'm gonna have to dig deeper into them. You know, again, I knew the songs that were in the soundtracks and on the radio or, you know, whatever, probably not any deep cuts. But I did listen to some more of their catalog, you know, sort of prepping for this. But yeah, I would love to sort of just give them a full discography listen at some point.

Libby (32:24.913)
I'll have to send you my consider the daddy's playlist that I made for Jeff when I did the record player. Because it's really like, no, they're actually like, I feel like I feel like Zutsu Riot was sort of seen as a novelty. I think it's much darker than that. But it was sort of written off as a novelty hit. And

Chad (32:28.758)
Yeah, please do.

Libby (32:50.629)
The band is just so much, they're so much more than that. I think that's the difference with the daddies. I'm sort of like the squirrel nut zippers. Kenneth Partridge calls them misfits of swing in a hell of a hat because they have a lot of swing songs, but they have a lot of, they've got like some funk songs, they've got some grunge songs, they've got...

like they really do so much more. Diamond Light Boogie, which was the first single off of Soulcatti is like a glam rock track. So, like the Skrull and the Zippers, they got sort of lumped in and you know, people weren't really able to hear their full sound. And then once the backlash of Swing began, which I've got my theories on,

Libby (33:48.317)
I think people weren't interested in going back and listening to cuts like Skyline Drive or Suicide Kings or the Lifeboat Mutiny. So that's my copy of their first album. 1990s ferociously stoned and signed by the band.

Chad (34:04.734)
Oh, I read. Oh, cool.

Chad (34:12.226)
Ha ha.

That's a hell of a cover.

Libby (34:17.077)
Yes, apparently, when I saw them back in January, they were telling me all the stories of like, making the album cover. And one of them, I think, forget who pointed it out, but one of the band members is like, oh, this one, this girl is a bartender in Oregon. Her name is Lisa. And she comes to see us when we play up there.

Chad (34:44.79)
So cool that they still keep in touch. Yeah.

Libby (34:45.345)
Yeah, I mean they hail from Eugene, so I think they see her when they're in Portland.

Chad (34:50.738)
Right. So I think, you know, what you were talking about them sort of getting pushed into this swing revival thing. What I was reading before was just what you said is they had so many other types of music on some of the earlier albums. But I think the story goes and, you know, I don't know if this is true, but again, you know, it was in an article.

Their manager noticed that a lot of the kids at the time that were coming to the shows were saying, like, you know, don't you have an album with just all of your, you know, your swing songs on it? So I guess they kind of threw one together and release that to sort of, you know, capitalize on, on the market. Right. Oh, hell yeah. Yeah.

Libby (35:28.021)
Yeah, why not get paid? Yeah, because if you look at Zoot Suit Riot, which I will do right now, because I have a signed copy of the 20th anniversary reissue, most of the songs were on other albums. Zoot Suit Riot is new, Brown Derby Jump is new, but I think...

trying to think which other which the rest of them appeared on other albums in different forms. And I mean, they were broke. They were really a traveling band. They were releasing albums on Perry's own label, Space Age Bachelor Pads. They were just selling albums at shows. And so they get in, you know, they're like, Okay, well, we can't afford it.

do a new album so we have to do a compilation. We can't do a swing album. We only have the money for four new tracks. So at the end of Zoot Suit Riot you hear Steve say, I think I'm about ready to sing it. And because that was his warm-up take and it was so good they kept it. So Steve Perry, again, I can't stop talking about him partially because I'm in love with him. I think he's amazing.

just really the best vocalist of all of them, like really has like an incredible, just vocal clarity and such a unique sounding voice. And really kind of killed it on Broadway if he wanted to. And just a good dude. Like I will personally vouch for the fact that he is a really, really good dude.

Chad (37:01.026)
He does.

Libby (37:11.641)
So, I'm.

Chad (37:12.862)
You know, maybe it's time for another swing revival. It's been, you know, 20 something years, right? Broadway plays the whole nine yards.

Libby (37:16.021)
Absolutely. It has. I really, I'm... Well, it's funny. I even think that, like, sort of post-COVID, there would be a chance to have social dancing, like to go back out. Because, like, again, just sort of this backswing, we've all been so isolated for so long to get back out there and

Chad (37:32.822)
Right.

Libby (37:45.689)
And I mean, some places are still really like pushing the rockabilly thing. Like there are still rockabilly clothing lines. My first rockabilly dresses, um, were from Hot Topic. I still have one of them. It was from Super Low Fat was the brand, but they like morbid threads had swing dresses, you can find them on Poshmark, like retro cherry print, the little

Libby (38:15.469)
Rockin' Bettys still does the swing thing. It's again, still big on the West Coast where it's warmer, but a lot of that rockabilly in retro fashion is still pretty easy to find, which is great. I usually go to Bettys Bombshells in Asbury Park. Shout out to my girl Tara. That's where I get all sort of my rockabilly clothes or Poshmark.

Chad (38:33.614)
No, nice.

Chad (38:41.442)
So let's talk about rockabilly and that whole revival, because I feel like it was sort of adjacent. And you've got Brian Setzer, right, who was...

at the forefront of that in the 80s with the Stray Cats. And then he kind of came back around and, you know, jumped right into the whole, the whole swing revival thing and, you know, that damn gap commercial, which we'll get to, but, it's funny because the Stray Cats, I just noticed are touring by the way, and they're playing at South Street Seaport over the summer. So I'm really tempted to go see them. I was so into them when I was, you know, listening to them in the 80s. All right, cool. Yeah, for sure.

Libby (39:11.077)
HAAA!

Let me know, I'll go with. I'd love to see the Stray Cats. So again, check them off. Check them off the list. So then I will have seen four of the five. It's funny because obviously like Brian Setzer was at the forefront of that revival in the 80s. Joe Jackson was doing it with his album Jump and Dive. The Blasters, yes.

Chad (39:23.286)
Yeah, yeah.

Chad (39:27.33)
Hahaha

Chad (39:40.022)
He did it first. Damn.

Libby (39:42.785)
Um, you had the blasters doing, uh, doing some of that. Uh, you even had like Buster Poindexter sort of doing the, the sort of kitsch version, um, which, you know what? You know what Buster Poindexter? I'm still filing you under swing on my, uh, you're not filed under comedy. You're not filed under new wave. You're not filed under punk. You're going to be filed under swing in my, yeah. So take that.

Chad (39:53.066)
Yeah, right.

Chad (40:00.656)
Oh yeah.

Chad (40:06.314)
Yeah, I can see that.

Libby (40:10.345)
I love Blaster Point Dexter, I love David Johansson. But I have sort of mixed feelings on Brian Setzer because although he's the original, I feel like you had all these bands doing all this work to add a new flavor.

Chad (40:12.674)
I do too.

Chad (40:21.695)
Really?

Libby (40:35.897)
to what they were doing and to mix punk and to mix, you know, like bring, like revive these genres. And then he just shows up with a cover.

Chad (40:50.446)
covers Louis Prima.

Libby (40:52.981)
and takes it all. And I'm like, I'm just, I'm a little mad about that because these bands had labored for so long just in clubs and at festivals. And then he just like kind of pulls rank, I guess, and not just, yeah, with a cover.

Chad (40:54.946)
Yeah, yeah.

Chad (41:20.714)
Yeah, I mean, it was a great cover. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I, yeah, it's, it's perfectly reversible. It doesn't add anything. But you know, I mean, if you want to be fair, as much as I love Joe Jackson's Jumpin' Jive, it's really, you know, half the album is just Louis Jordan covers, right? And they're not any different than the originals. They don't bring anything new. But it works for some, I mean, maybe it's because it's Joe Jackson. Anything Joe Jackson does just works because he's brilliant.

Libby (41:23.323)
It's a serviceable cover. It doesn't add anything.

Libby (41:46.241)
Yeah, and I do love Joe Jackson, but that one kind of falls flat for me. And I think because of that, like, because I know what Joe Jackson can bring to a genre. And he just decided, nah, I'm not going to do that.

Chad (42:01.014)
Yeah, I will give him credit for raising awareness because, you know, 81, I mean, I don't think I was listening to that album. I was nine years old, but I think when I got older and I became aware of it, I didn't know they were Louis Jordan covers because I had no frame of reference for who Louis Jordan even was. And then I found out in my probably late teens, early 20s, and then that turned me on to this whole other world.

Libby (42:16.344)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (42:21.746)
music, right? So I got really into all the original jump blues type stuff and you know made that part of my regular listening rotation for a long time. Still is really.

Libby (42:22.791)
Yeah!

Libby (42:30.817)
Yeah. And I think that that's fine. Like being able to move backwards because now, you know, I've been listening to Swing Revival since I was in high school. And again, got back into it. I think during the pandemic, somebody sent me the single for Zoot Suit Riot as a gift. And I was like, I'm going to get back. I'm going to listen to this. And I was like, why have I not been listening to this? And I think in a lot of ways, because like as an adult, I was sort of bullied.

into people saying like, oh, it's shitty and sort of me needing approval as a young woman, like stopped listening to it. And then I was like, no, this stuff rules and I will fight you. But

Libby (43:14.705)
some oh but like listening to this has sort of gotten me to go back and listen to not so much junk blues right now but sort of music for dancing and what I sort of like in my head call like mid-century cocktail jazz like the kind of stuff you put on in your conversation pit um and it's a lot of stuff you find like dollar albums like

Chad (43:37.762)
Okay.

Libby (43:43.613)
with sometimes insane covers. These are from a friend's collection. Like this Shall We Dance, which has a kind of rapey cover. So...

Chad (43:56.226)
So many of those albums from the 50s and 60s that were like exactly that type of record did have the rapey covers like the Half Naked Women and you know it was just like a wild time for album art. Yes! I think my dad might have had that record believe it or not.

Libby (44:07.897)
What about this one? Music to watch girls buy. That's fun. I love it. And like I'll put these on in the morning and just sort of have them. I've got, you know, Patty Page. Um, this is sort of a new favorite. I'm like kind of obsessed with, uh, songs for swinging losers. Obsessed. Like I just, I love it. And like going back and listening to, uh,

that again sort of mid-century jazz is really fun and sort of makes, I don't know, I don't want to say like, oh, it makes me feel complete, but like it makes me feel good when I listen to it. And that I think was ultimately for me what I loved about swing music is I felt good when I listened to it. I felt exciting. I felt a little bit dangerous. And getting out and going dancing was always fun.

And my boyfriend at the time didn't like dancing. He thought it was dumb. He didn't like swing or rival either. So I went without him. And they would still have swing dance nights, my first year of college, some of which I DJed. And I was really light and I didn't mind men seeing my garters. Like I wasn't afraid.

Chad (45:19.574)
Good for you.

Libby (45:34.497)
And so like you could throw me around the dance floor. Like I would do, like I would go between the legs. You could flip me. I'm like, I was a really, I was a fun time gal. And so when I hear this music, like it makes me think of really fun times of being on the dance floor and a dance floor being a safe space for a woman. Like I've never had a problem at a swing dance show ever.

Chad (45:44.1)
No.

Chad (45:55.753)
Sure.

Yeah. Well, because I think that the sort of the energy and the vibe goes with the yesteryear nod, right? I mean, like you're doing something that.

should be respectful because that's how it was. And I think a lot of the people that were really into the swing dancing and the swing revival sort of got that right. And, you know, as opposed to the whole, you know, mosh pit groping women thing that the whole grunge era brought us, you know, in festivals and stuff like that. But I mean, I loved the whole dancing aspect of it. I just can't dance to save my life. So that was not a part of my experience with the swing revival bit.

Libby (46:21.868)
Yeah.

Libby (46:42.549)
So nobody else can either. It's just like, just be in the moment. And actually, my husband and I have sort of a tradition on New Year's that started during COVID, since we couldn't go out. We'd gone swing dancing on New Year's a couple times, but so we stayed in the house and do it. So now New Year's Eve, we usually, we put on, I Love American Music, which was off of...

their album White Teeth Black Thoughts, one of my favorites of their albums. And we danced to that. So yeah, so we just, you know, kind of swing dance and we're not, you know, I'm not a classically trained dancer or anything. I just let my hips get loose and have some fun.

Chad (47:35.246)
I guess, you know, we talked about how the whole swing revival started, but I guess, how did it come crashing to a halt? And you know, here's where we circle back to the Gap Khakis commercial, because I feel like, you know, Gap is culture killer.

That's when it probably peaked in popularity. And then I think Madison Avenue really wanted to capitalize on it and make money off of the trend. But I think by that time it was already on the way out. And I think that was the final straw, right? I think once it really got to the sort of mainstream zeitgeist, if you will, I think that's when it started to be like, okay, it kind of went back underground. So I don't know, what do you think about that?

Libby (48:14.777)
I think that was a big part of it. I think by that point, we were starting to move towards more homogenized music. We're starting to move out of stuff that was different. And I want to read a quote from Steve Perry, the one I alluded to earlier, which I think kind of ties a lot of stuff together. And this comes from his interview with Kenneth Partridge.

Chad (48:23.533)
Yeah.

Libby (48:42.469)
There's too many rules. The girls like it, but the guys don't like it in general. What young men are interested in is trying to appear tough and savvy and strong. And something about swing music doesn't do the job unless you're smart and you realize it actually is that kind of music, but they didn't get it. Because what we're gonna see coming up, and especially as we head into 9-11, which just changes the whole game, the pop music landscape, has it changed the landscape of everything we know in America?

was we're about to swing into Woodstock 99. We're having the rise of bands like Linkin Park. We're having the rise of like rap rock. And at a time where I don't want to say like there was equality on the dance floor, but I think we were having a moment where, you know, women were starting to rise up more in music. You had bands like Garbage. You had Alanis Morissette. You had Natalie Merchant. You had Tory Amos. You had all these

these women becoming more popular than ever. Even, you know, even over on the Ska scene, you had, say, Ferris, you had No Doubt. The hip hop scene was starting to see more women. In every genre, women were making inroads. They were starting to feel more comfortable. And so I think I want to like the music industry, I think, looked at that and said, no, we need white boys to be angry.

because angry white boys buy records. And so I'm not saying that Fred Durst is a cyop.

Chad (50:13.516)
Yeah.

Libby (50:19.685)
But I'm just putting that out there, I'm just asking questions.

Chad (50:19.862)
know you were gonna say Fred Durst.

I know Fred Durst's name was gonna be the next thing that came up because as you said that I was like, huh, Limp Bizkit

Libby (50:32.077)
Yeah, I really think that, like, that's my sort of weird conspiracy theory. I think it was, I think they thought we need to rile up young white men. And they did. And that was the end of... I think that was one of the death knells in swing music. It wasn't angry enough. Again, if you listen to Zuzu Riot is one of the angriest albums like I own.

That album is fucking dark. So, I have Smith's albums that are lighter than Zoot Suit Riot. Seriously, Louder Than Bombs got nothing. Yeah.

Chad (51:04.919)
haha

Chad (51:11.582)
now I have to go listen. Now I have to go listen to the whole album darker than Royal Scam. Our gal Joe

Libby (51:19.545)
home. It is honestly like that level of darkness.

Chad (51:23.286)
Wow, okay. All right, well, there's my reference point.

Libby (51:25.445)
Yeah, I'd say, yeah, there's definitely like, I guarantee you the royal scam is in Steve Perry's record collection. Um, even like Muggsy's move is pretty dark. Like the song Muggsy's Move is based on like Eddie Nichols just being a raging heroin addict. Like he knows. Um, yeah, those two albums are dark. Meanwhile, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy's like, this guy wears a pinstripe suit. It's fun. Um, again, uh, just miles apart. Could not be further apart.

Chad (51:32.355)
Ha ha!

Libby (51:55.449)
So, but yeah, I mean, I really do think that the party was over. I think they had to crush us.

Chad (52:08.174)
Yeah, and then 9-11 happened, like you said, and everything changed. And that was right around the time, like we talked about, that radio just sort of went away and everything became just this corporate machine. So, yeah.

Libby (52:21.473)
Yeah. So I'd love to see the Swing Revival pick back up. I really would. It's a great style of music. It's fun. It can be used for both kind of party anthems and as a way to seek social change. And to, you know, look at, you could look at things much more darkly. I was talking to

uh Steve Perry after the most recent Daddy show and he said the album they're working on now they're working on a Scott album which I'm like okay let's not get crazy the only good Scott comes from the Cherry Poppin' Daddies all right Steve Perry is a good guy um is he's like it's the most fucked up album we've ever done I'm like hell yeah I can't wait and again love those guys would die

Libby (53:21.173)
my kidneys, whatever he needs. So.

Chad (53:26.03)
But they have the freedom to make an album that's fucked up because maybe they wouldn't have done that at the height of their popularity. So I think that's a great thing. As much as it sucks that they're not making number one records and making all the money to sort of compensate them for their genius, I feel like it's giving them more artistic freedom.

Libby (53:48.061)
Yeah, and also Steve Perry's wife, Yvette, has stage four colon cancer and is a really wonderful advocate, just very outspoken about it and really just a really wonderful wealth of medical advice and encouragement and studies and things. I follow her on Instagram. And so he, I mean, he's got a kid and a wife to take care of.

Chad (53:55.626)
Oh no.

Libby (54:16.793)
And I also love that again, like one of the sort of marvelous things about the that era is there are no problematic dudes in it. Like all of the main players completely non-problematic.

All of them great. Dicky Barrett, Mighty Boss Tones, super piece of shit. Anti-vaxx piece of shit. So, but I think I've proven my point, but yeah, all of the players from the big four, all good dudes. And I love that. It's like, it's one of those things where you're like, okay, the dude from the Cherry Poppin' Daddies is actually just like a good dude. He's just a solidly good dude. I love that for him.

Chad (54:33.994)
family man and yeah.

Chad (54:41.658)
See, there you go.

Chad (54:53.23)
That's great.

Libby (55:03.697)
I'm also I just want to put out there with people give me shit like how can you like a band like that it was the 90s and there were like the butthole surfers were on the radio like do not give me shit you can't be a good true pop night butthole surfers the 90s were fucked up they were a magical fucked up time and I want them back

Chad (55:21.77)
Yeah, exactly.

Libby (55:28.685)
This is what they took from us.

Chad (55:29.754)
I do too. I miss that era for sure. I mean, I was more of an 80s kid, I think, because it was, you know, I was really growing up during that decade. But I think the 90s is really where I started to refine my music taste a lot more. So I listened to everything, all the bands that you've mentioned so far, you know, I've pretty much been into at some point or, you know, had on a mixtape or mix CD or, you know, whatever it might have been.

Libby (55:44.442)
Yeah.

Libby (55:55.501)
Yeah, I will say, you know who should be mentioned in the swing revival, but also should be sent to the moon is Lubega, Mambo number five. Technically fits in. It's a bad song, although it does, I gotta say, it kills at the roller rink. I remember going roller skating and hearing that you're like, okay, that kills. It gets people out on the roller rink.

Chad (56:11.328)
Yeah...

Chad (56:17.08)
I have a conf-

Chad (56:23.546)
It's it's a

Unfortunate bop, yes. I have a confession. I was in a cover band in the 90s and my band did Mambo Number Five only because it was requested. We got paid, not a lot of money, but enough to do a party, like a private party kind of thing. And it was an outdoor thing and it was a barbecue and they fed us and gave us beers and it was great. And they paid us on top of that. And we said to them, is there anything special that you wanted us to learn to play for your party?

like, yeah, Mavo number five, like, we're all like, fuck. Because like,

Libby (56:59.725)
One, that's amazing and I'd love to hear it, but also just like they looked across the vast landscape of all recorded music and they're like, yes, Mambo number five, that is of everything.

Chad (57:09.81)
It was on the radio. It was on the radio and it was it was like at the height of that song's popularity. I feel like it was whatever year whatever year it came out.

Libby (57:16.249)
Yeah, but like so was Are You Jimmy Ray? Like you could have played that. You could have played How Bizarre by OMC. You could have played What's Going On by Four Non Blondes. A lot of songs are on the radio.

Chad (57:26.134)
Yeah. Oh yeah. Right, right.

Chad (57:32.36)
Hahaha!

That was the big request. Um, and the funny thing is we were in like this, the band that I was in was in like this transition phase where we started out doing a lot of hard rock and alternative and grunge covers because that's what we all like to listen to. Um, but then we realized that we weren't really getting gigs and we kind of couldn't figure out why at first. And then we were like, well, maybe it's because we're playing stuff that nobody wants to hear in a bar. So we sort of pivoted and we started doing more popular stuff and more disco and funk.

Libby (57:57.431)
Yeah.

Chad (58:04.4)
did like play that funky music, I will survive, we did some KC in the sunshine band. And then we threw we threw Mambo number five in the mix. So yeah, off to dig up off the dig up the video. Have it on video.

Libby (58:09.582)
Nice.

Libby (58:17.361)
I would love that, love to see that. And I feel like swing revival, I think shares a lot in common with disco is that it really like the backlash, I think came from misogyny. And again, like this refusal to put effort in, to learn to dance, to dress up. Like, no, I wanna be a dirt bag. I don't wanna have to go to the effort.

Chad (58:30.168)
Yeah.

Chad (58:44.066)
Hahaha

Libby (58:45.813)
I want to have skid marks and be a scumbag.

So I really, I think, I think there was like, that was some of the backlash. And I think, I think we really need to re-examine the swing revival and the culture that was around it, because I think it signifies a larger cultural movement in a post-Grunge world, in a world where we were

looking for the next big thing and trying out all of these different genres. And again, like, you know, there was a moment with Latin music explosion with Livin' La Vida Loca and, you know, Riké Iglesias and all of these other great sounds that we weren't hearing. And you had your, you know, your Euro trash electronic music coming in. There was so much going on. And then there was

That's one of the things that a lot of people, I think, fail to understand about my music taste, is that's when I came of age. That's what a lot of us came of age. And so you are informed by the music that plays when you're starting to branch out from what your parents listen to, to what will make up the fundamentals of your personality. So it's like, yeah, do I like that I like sugar

Chad (01:00:08.11)
for sure.

Libby (01:00:19.489)
Am I gonna be happy when it's playing on the radio at the grocery store? Yeah. Yeah, like...

Chad (01:00:22.906)
Yeah. I just made a grocery store playlist. I've been, oh man, let me pull it up. I have been going to stop and shop. So my wife and I like take turns going to the store because you know, it's not fun.

Libby (01:00:28.467)
Ooh, what's hot at?

Libby (01:00:39.43)
Heh.

Chad (01:00:40.13)
But I'll hit stop and shop alone and I'll just be walking around and I'll hear something. So I just whip out my phone and I just started throwing song titles into a note because I was just like, they're playing some really great deep cuts and shit. So let's see, it's 45 songs. It's got Matchbox 20, Sister Hazel, Lenny Kravitz, Aretha Franklin, The Cure, Pixies, which you know.

Libby (01:00:52.389)
Yeah!

Libby (01:00:58.129)
Hell yeah!

Chad (01:01:05.782)
Here comes your man in the grocery store. That's how you know you're getting old, right? Rock set, Joyride, favorite rock set song. One of my favorite songs of the 90s, hands down.

Libby (01:01:09.317)
Yeah.

Libby (01:01:13.676)
So good.

Ooh, I'm gonna have to, my favorite rock set song is Almost Unreal. From the Super Mario Brothers soundtrack. So good.

Chad (01:01:24.976)
There you go. So I will link I'll send you the playlist but I'll link it in the in the show notes too. But there's just some random shit on it. Yeah.

Libby (01:01:28.985)
Yeah! Hey! Grocery stores! Yeah, get Brown Derby Jump on there!

Why not?

Chad (01:01:39.213)
Well, missed opportunity. They played, should I stay or should I go by the clash? And I'm like, why not lost in the supermarket? I mean, come on, could it be me? Maybe it was too obvious. I don't know. Yeah, like get with it.

Libby (01:01:47.193)
Guys, guys, you're blowing it. But I gotta say, I found a like 90s mix that I had made in the 2000s, like as I was gathering, like all of my like downloaded 90s music and putting it on CDs to listen to in the car. And I cannot tell you the joy I felt when I heard Sister Hazel's All For You. Like the apps, it was one of those songs that I hadn't thought about in 20 years or whatever.

and the joy of those harmonies, just incredible. Like that, and I also hadn't thought about Hootie and the Blowfish only wanna be with you. So good. So many good jams. Like I remembered the words to all of them. Like I could sing all of Halbizah right now.

Chad (01:02:30.422)
Yeah. So can I. I have a deep cut for you. Nine story, oh is it not nine stories? What's the name of the band? The song's called Story of a Girl.

Libby (01:02:33.518)
out.

Libby (01:02:41.189)
Oh, I hate that song! Yes. It's just one of those things like, ooh, she sounds messy as hell.

Chad (01:02:43.074)
Do you really? Oh, see that's...

Chad (01:02:51.024)
Maybe I like messy, I don't know, but that's one of those like deep, that's one of those deep 90s cuts that I just love. And again, comes on the radio, I know every word. Would I ever go purposely play it? Probably not, but when it comes on, I won't turn it off, you know.

Libby (01:02:52.557)
Yeah. You're talking to me, aren't you?

Libby (01:03:01.296)
Yeah.

Libby (01:03:05.469)
Yeah, um, there was another one like that I heard recently. Oh, like, Hey Leonardo, she likes me for me. Like again, like not a good song, but one that like, I know all the words to, although, um, I, the one that gets me every single time, I think probably one of the best songs ever written. Um, you only get what you give by the new radicals. Probably should be like our national anthem.

Chad (01:03:14.698)
Yes.

Chad (01:03:31.499)
Yes.

Libby (01:03:35.125)
It's one of the best songs ever written. Iced Tea said so. Like, yeah. There's an interview where he's like, yeah, I've been listening to the new radicals. You only get what you give. And it's like, like the best song. It really is. It's incredible. It makes me so happy every time I hear it. Um, and I had to stop myself cause all these nineties albums are getting repressed on vinyl. And I'm like, you're not going to listen to Matchbox twenties yourself or someone like you. Like,

Chad (01:03:40.031)
Vice T said that?

Libby (01:04:04.873)
great album loved it when it came out you're not going to listen to it on vinyl you have so much vinyl just you have the cd if you really need to hear it but you are not going to play that you're not going to listen to that

Chad (01:04:12.982)
Yeah.

Chad (01:04:17.963)
You have to draw the line. You got to draw the line somewhere.

Libby (01:04:21.901)
Yeah, otherwise your final collection just ends up... insane. Like mine. Um... I do have a whole 90's section though.

Chad (01:04:35.011)
My wife and I a while back were just like pulling up one like 90s one hit wonder playlists on YouTube and just like, Oh my god, haven't heard that song in 20 years. Oh my god, I haven't heard that song in forever. Like it was just, it was a fun night. I should make a playlist. I should make a playlist. Yeah, yeah, right.

Libby (01:04:47.617)
Yeah, the 90s Vivo. You should. I'll put that on. It's weird because I never see the video. I'm really surprised the video for ZUZU RIOT isn't on there. Because again, it's one of those songs. And I feel like they don't get enough in this as well. As I'm looking at picking up these albums that are the best of the 90s.

Chad (01:05:00.215)
Yeah.

Libby (01:05:10.977)
that song defines a very specific moment of the 90s. It was one of... that and Hell were the two songs that really charted. And it's... you hear that opening drum and you know what you are about to hear. And it's like it's embedded in a certain generation. Although one of my friends said that he occasionally hears it on the college radio station. Like I'd love to hear it like in the wild.

Chad (01:05:40.446)
Yeah. And stop and shop. Oh, for sure. When you're not expecting it.

Libby (01:05:41.555)
So there's a thrill about catching it in the wild.

but I'm, yeah. I mean, he like demanded that I explain why I like it. I'm like, I don't owe you anything.

Libby (01:05:55.245)
So I sort of like, my theory is it was 1998. I owe you no explanation for anything I did in 1998. None of it. So I was 15, it was beautiful. I had Betty Page bangs. The whole world spread before me. I rocked Betty Page bangs up until I think probably my mid-20s. And it wasn't even like I'm doing Betty Page bangs. It's like, this is the haircut I've had my whole fucking life.

Chad (01:06:03.166)
Yeah, it was a different time.

Chad (01:06:10.702)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (01:06:19.982)
Oh wow.

Chad (01:06:25.3)
Hahaha

Libby (01:06:25.685)
Again, eminent hipster.

Chad (01:06:28.546)
That's right.

Final Vixen.

Libby (01:06:32.904)
Mm-hmm. So one more piece of show and tell.

Chad (01:06:37.282)
All right.

Libby (01:06:38.601)
signed set list from the Iridium. So let's see the signatures. They close with, they close with Brown Derby Jump, Zoot Suit Riot, Ding Dong Daddy, the D-Car line, then go Encore with No Mercy for Swine, and Cherry Poppin Daddy's Strut. It was a good, it was a good show. Cause I saw them in...

Chad (01:06:41.006)
Oh cool!

Chad (01:06:44.983)
Yeah.

Chad (01:06:58.104)
Wow.

Libby (01:07:06.769)
2023. It was the first time I'd seen them and I absolutely lost my shit. Absolutely just gushed all over the whole band. It was probably embarrassing. But also Steve Perry and I hail from the same. He's from Appalachia. And I lived in Binghamton for a while, so we sort of hail from the same area. Did we get that? Like Binghamton. Binghamton grit. But some covers.

in there, but mostly originals. But like, they always pick weird covers like Bloodshot Eyes or Duck the Jitterbug. Like, it's, I mean, everybody does Minnie the Moocher and they're doing, uh, Kicking the Gong around. They're just such weird guys.

Chad (01:07:52.918)
that keeps it interesting.

Libby (01:07:54.157)
Yeah, and Big Bad Voodoo Daddy still tours. They tour year round. They do a Christmas show. They still produce records. Royal Crown Revue has been trying to get back together. They were trying to get back together for the Rockabilly Weekend in Las Vegas. And they announced that they were going to be there for the 2020 Rockabilly Weekend. That did not happen.

Chad (01:08:00.724)
Oh cool.

Chad (01:08:20.171)
Oh.

Yeah.

Libby (01:08:24.165)
And Squirrel and Nut Zipper is still tour. So they're all still out there. And as you said, the stray cats are back on tour. So this music is still available and there are still devoted fans. The crowd at the Iridium, every time I see the daddies, is always lovely. Always had a good crowd. This show's usually sold out pretty quickly.

Chad (01:08:33.33)
Yeah, that was surprising.

Chad (01:08:51.022)
So I think we should do a grassroots effort to get the second spring revival back and kick it into gear.

Libby (01:08:57.081)
Hell yeah, I will lead the charge. I feel like, and like that's, that is like what I do. Like, I feel like I have to be out there reppin'. Like I'm out there in my Betty Page dresses and my Victory curls, like out there reppin' that life. And I think it's important. I think we need to like get this back. Cause again, it's like punk as hell. Like the daddies are punk as hell. Squirrel and the zippers are punk as hell. Like.

Chad (01:09:22.158)
It is.

Libby (01:09:26.225)
Let's get the music back.

Chad (01:09:26.966)
I didn't realize it at the time. You know, I didn't realize how punk it was until much later, but looking back on it, I was like, holy shit, you know, like that was a movement. It really was.

Libby (01:09:35.917)
Yeah, it was and like an underratedly inclusive one. And I think we could even get it more inclusive. I would like to see more front men of color, more women. You know, would love to see an LGBTQ element brought in. I think we could really do it. I think we could bring it all, bring it all back around.

Chad (01:10:03.822)
All right, I'm in.

Libby (01:10:05.081)
Yes! See, this is why it's so exciting to talk to you, because I don't have to convert you. I don't have to be like, no, actually, they're a really good band. Like, but I do, like, I guess, and I'm like, I'm really trying, like, I'm out there. That's like, that's what I preach. It's just like, swing revival. And the shield. I'm really surprised how many people are out there like, Walden Goggins is really good on Fallout, like, and y'all that have never seen the shield, you're just gonna sit there and not watch the shield.

Chad (01:10:14.57)
We just have to convert the listeners.

Libby (01:10:34.733)
The show that made him.

Chad (01:10:34.854)
or more importantly, justified. Well, the show that made him, yes, for sure. But he, for me, he made, really? Why?

Libby (01:10:39.433)
Yeah, I'm mid on Justified. Yeah, I think you know, because I can't stand Raelyn. I would watch Justified if it was all void. It's like, Raelyn is the fly in my ointment.

Chad (01:10:47.575)
Huh. Okay.

Chad (01:10:51.714)
Yeah, but Timothy Olyphant's... Yeah, the character, sure, but Timothy Olyphant's great. I love him.

Libby (01:10:57.281)
He's great and I love him. But I find Raelyn a really boring character. And also there was a scene where Walton Goggins said the word stimulate and I had to walk away. I was like, I can't do this. It's I can't, I had to get in the shower. I was just like, I can't with this man. He's too much. So, he's too hot.

Chad (01:11:04.563)
Yeah, okay.

Chad (01:11:12.526)
Hahaha

Libby (01:11:27.437)
But I do. Okay. Oh, it's Titles Negative Girls coming out September 10th from Tura. And it is the first novel in a series that I've actually had short stories that have run in Ellery Queen, they've run in Tuff. There's one forthcoming in Alfred Hitchcock.

Chad (01:11:27.746)
So you have a new book coming out soonish. Let's talk about that. Yeah, tell me about it.

Libby (01:11:53.093)
I've won, I'm a Seamus Award winner for one that was in a Warren Zivana anthology. And actually the Black Orca Novella Award story that will be in Alfred Hitchcock is based on a Cherry Pop and Daddy song. It's based on the Lifeboat Mutiny from Ferociously Stoned. So yeah, I'm going to send them a copy. But yeah, it's a, it's a PI novel. It's my PI.

Chad (01:12:05.71)
Wow

Chad (01:12:11.874)
So cool. Yeah.

Libby (01:12:20.909)
Martin Wade is a former sort of like a Paul Westerberg type punk who sort of left all that behind and became a private investigator. He's joined by his kind of tattooed bisexual sort of punk assistant Valerie Jax, and they are put on a case involving the daughter of an old bandmate.

Chad (01:12:28.142)
Okay

Chad (01:12:49.431)
Neat.

Libby (01:12:50.337)
and it's named for a Steely Dan song.

Chad (01:12:52.79)
Yes, yes, I know that and I love that. I can't wait to read it.

Libby (01:12:54.921)
Yes. Thank you. I'm very excited about it. It really like it digs into the two things I love, which are music and PI novels. So.

Chad (01:13:07.934)
And you also contributed some short fiction to a couple of anthologies that were sort of noir based on Celie Dan songs or lyrics, right?

Libby (01:13:18.549)
Yes, so I have a story called West of Hollywood. I'm really big on Two Against Nature. That's like the other thing I champion is like, no, Two Against Nature is a really, really great album. And that's in A Beast Without A Name. I've got a story in A Warren's Yvonne.

Anthology, which was that anthology was nominated for an Anthony award. And then I took home the Seamus award for Charlie's Medicine, which is a Martin Wade story. And then I've got one forthcoming in a talking heads anthology. I'm yeah. I based on Ruby Deer. So that actually comes out later this month. So yeah, I really, I enjoy doing that. I'm we've kicked around the idea of doing one based on a swing and ska.

Chad (01:14:02.254)
Nice. Well, I'll link.

Libby (01:14:10.989)
So, yeah, one of my earliest crime stories was written sort of around Brown Derby Jump. So again, like this music has been embedded in who I am as a crime writer from the beginning. So, yeah, like I just started kind of drawing those parallels when I got back into it. I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember how important this was to early stories and developing that.

Chad (01:14:11.81)
Huh, you should.

Chad (01:14:27.278)
That's amazing.

Libby (01:14:40.825)
that sort of pattern in a way and that like looking in those dark alleys.

Chad (01:14:48.682)
I love the Dark Alley, PI, noir type stuff. Like that's a genre that I'm heavily invested in. Maybe not as much of the classics, maybe more of the modern stuff, and maybe some obscure authors, like probably, you know? But I don't know. I mean, just any series that has sort of a good detective kind of case to it or, you know, something like that.

Libby (01:15:00.224)
Heh.

Libby (01:15:10.506)
Well, I hope you like this one.

Chad (01:15:13.098)
Yeah, definitely check it out. And just wanted to make a note too that I think I first became aware of your writing through The Big Rewind, which was great, great book. Loved it.

Libby (01:15:39.893)
Oh, thank you. That's so sweet of you. Yeah, that's that's, um, I kind of hipster mystery mixtape on and I it's actually negative girl and the characters of Martin and Valerie grew out of a sequel to the big rewind that never came to fruition. I'm and I really liked them and their interaction. So I retooled them. They were a father daughter team. And they were the I'm they were the client. And I retooled them, reworked them, so now they're the PI. But there is hints, he talks about I'm working for an agency in New York, and it's the agency that Jett works for in The Big Rewind. So it is, they exist in the same world. I think there's a story where he mentions Cassie Brennan, who is a character in The Big Rewind.

Chad (01:16:31.811)
That's awesome.

Libby (01:16:38.553)
you remember. No spoilers. So yeah, and that's the kind of thing like I do not because I think anyone will pick up on it, but because it amuses me while I'm writing. Like I do a lot of there's a reference to the shield that no one has picked up on yet.

Chad (01:16:40.822)
I love that crossover. Yeah, no spoilers. Cool.

Libby (01:16:59.469)
It's a really, it's like an insane deep cut and it's one of those things like it makes me laugh. And if someone discovers that they're gonna be like, that's really dumb. But I'm like, but it made me laugh. Like I put in all these like really, these really dumb things to amuse myself.

Chad (01:17:10.926)
That's all that matters.

Libby (01:17:15.833)
You have to.

Chad (01:17:17.622)
You have to, keeps it interesting. And like you said, it's fun to see who notices, and if anybody even notices. Little Easter eggs, yeah.

Libby (01:17:25.001)
Yeah. So far the one person who I thought would get it, it's gone completely over his head. I know. He'll figure it out and he'll be the one to say like, you're a goofball. A little bit.

Chad (01:17:41.966)
Well, Libby, what else do you want to cover? Anything you wanted to touch on?

Libby (01:17:46.033)
I think we've covered it all as much as, you know, without me completely rereading and retelling everything that Kenneth Partridge wrote in Hell of a Hat. Although, you know, I want to say we might be on the cusp of a swing revival because no doubt headline Coachella. So if we can sneak Ska back in, like maybe there's a place we can just kind of work that back in. I'll take that. Yeah, so.

Chad (01:17:48.479)
Yeah.

Chad (01:17:55.989)
Hahaha

Chad (01:18:04.202)
Yeah, I saw that.

Chad (01:18:11.227)
It's the next in the cycle. Yeah. It's next in the cycle for sure.

Libby (01:18:15.177)
I can't stand No Doubt and I really cannot stand Gwen Stefani. But I will take it.

Chad (01:18:22.422)
I don't like what she's become. Yeah, yeah, I'll take it.

Libby (01:18:26.029)
Like she's, I've never liked, she just had too much like cool girl energy. Like, no, I'm not like other girls. I felt like she was kind of an intro loafer. But again, like I don't like Ska. My sister liked Ska a lot more than I did. So younger, two years younger. She was, she was into Ska and I was into the swing.

Chad (01:18:41.13)
Younger or older than you? Okay, there you go.

Chad (01:18:48.062)
Yeah, makes sense.

Libby (01:18:49.413)
Yeah.

Chad (01:18:51.806)
Alright, well, thank you for coming on. This has been Whirlwind revisit of the swing revival era and other things. So really great talking to you and anything you want to close with

Libby (01:18:55.506)
Oh.

Libby (01:19:02.289)
Oh, so great talking to you. They, I know, I think really just, um, if you want to reach out to me, um, and get my really great swing playlist, I'm happy to send it to you, like really, I leave, I leave with this, consider the daddies. Like really go back to listening to go to, um, kids on the street, which is their 1995 album, it's good mid ground. It's got some swing. It's got some Scott. It's got some grunge.

or like kind of post-grunge alternative. And don't, don't be held back. Don't be afraid of your feelings. It's okay. Yeah, they're great. Go back and listen, although I will say, I went back and listened to Muggsy's Move, which was a huge, huge album when I was in grad school. I like played that incessantly. Not as good as I remember. The Contender, straight bangers, all of it. The Contender got me through a breakup. Like, yeah.

Chad (01:19:40.59)
Don't sleep on the daddies.

Chad (01:19:57.943)
Wow.

Libby (01:19:59.541)
I still like think about, it was a friend breakup and we're friends again, but like, I still think of this friend when I hear stormy weather, like just gets me. Yeah, the contender's amazing. If I'd have to say, if I was gonna recommend where to start, I would say start with the contender by Royal Crown Review, Americana Deluxe by Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Hot by the Squirrel and Nutsippers. And you can start.

Chad (01:20:09.346)
Oh wow. Oh, yeah.

Libby (01:20:29.365)
with Zoot Riot as a compilation. But I would say to get a full picture of what they can do, go with Kids on the Street, then go hop over to White Teeth Black Thoughts, and then go to Zoot Riot. That's your homework.

Chad (01:20:47.982)
Okay. All right. I'll take it. I'll report back. And send me that playlist. Please send me the playlist. I'll link it up in the show notes so everybody can get wise.

Libby (01:20:53.48)
Please do.

I will.

Libby (01:21:00.461)
Yes. I'll have to retool it because it stops at Soulcatti, but I'll put some of the later stuff. And their comeback album was Sasquahanna and that's the river that's flowing by my house. So it connects, it runs from Binghamton, so I'm just like Steve gots it.

gets that upstate life. There really is like a core of sadness that runs through Binghamton, the like post-industrial core of sadness that you don't get unless you've lived there. And listening to the daddies, I'm like, oh yeah, I hear this. Like, I know this. I know it in a way that most other listeners wouldn't because like I've lived in Binghamton and that place, Steve Perry said, he's like, it's so shitty, right? And I'm like, it's so shitty. We like bonded over it's beautiful shittiness. And you-

Chad (01:21:55.829)
Ha ha ha!

Libby (01:21:55.981)
You read the big rewind, you know all about Banghamton. It's so shitty.

Chad (01:21:59.306)
do. Unfortunately, I do. All right, great. Well, I guess we'll wrap it up. And thanks again. And I can't wait to see the playlist. Absolutely. And we'll do this again, hopefully.

Libby (01:22:06.305)
Yes. Thank you.

Thank you so much for, like I said, for, for enjoying this with me, for being present for it. I really appreciate it.

Chad (01:22:17.15)
For sure. Absolutely. My pleasure You got it All right. Talk to you soon

Libby (01:22:23.193)
Talk to you soon.