Episode 18 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:21.072)
Hello and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. I'm joined this week by musician Max Begler. Max is in the band Sunny Days & the Weathermen. How's it going, Max? I'm pretty good, thanks. So yeah, I mean, jumping right into your band, I'm blown away. I was listening to it right before we started recording and wow, knocked my socks off. Ha ha ha.

Max (00:30.039)
Good, how you doing?

Max (00:42.338)
Thank you, thank you, I really appreciate that.

Chad (00:45.488)
So why don't you tell us just a bit more about yourself, and then we can definitely talk about this album.

Max (00:50.486)
Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Max. I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I'm still a current resident of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I have been playing guitar for probably, oh geez, probably like 10 years, maybe a little over that, off and on. And then when COVID started, I ended up starting a COVID band with a buddy of mine.

just in the last two years really kind of nailed down everything, got enough people that were crazy enough to start playing together with me and then slowly over time managed to put together a band and added members, got rid of members and then finally got to a place that was steady enough that we were playing and it's changed the lineups a little bit over the last two years since we started. But it's...

We're a six-piece band, all based out of Pittsburgh, and we just put out our first album.

Chad (01:55.224)
Yeah, and it's amazing. Like I said, I just listened 13 songs, just over 35 minutes, Fast and Furious. And I hear so many influences and so many styles just within that 35 minute album that I'm still sitting here like blown away. So tell me a bit more about, you know, your influences, the band, you know, and how you wrote these songs and came to record them.

Max (02:19.986)
Yeah, well, I feel like I can't possibly talk about my influences without talking about my parents. So much of my music taste, at least the baseline of it, really came from my mom and dad. They are both born in the late 50s, like had the entirety of the 60s. They had my mom had her older brother who was a huge music junkie. I mean, just both really, you know.

children in the 60s, lovers of late 60s and 70s music. And so a lot of, you know, the doors, the Rolling Stones, I got a lot of Beatles. I got just a lot of that, the like pop charts of the 60s and 70s growing up, tons and tons of just CDs and listening to.

you know, classic rock on the radio and yeah, the whole nine yards. Um, but a lot of my own personal influences really came from the last, like five years, um, right after I got out of college. I mean, I, when I was in college, I kind of got more into like, I would say alternative rock, um, a lot of, uh, a lot of punk. I got into a lot of.

Um, classic, more classic rock and roll. Uh, so like late fifties stuff. Uh, and then when I got out of college, I really started deep diving into garage rock, um, and really found a love with the lost one hit wonders of the 1960s and a lot of the garage rockers that would come out of that time. I mean.

Chad (03:57.883)
Yeah.

Max (04:12.678)
uh... you know like thirteen floor elevators and see five the stooge is not that those are really any lost ones but i mean even deeper than that com the mysterious question marks that things like that all of all of the really uh... you know the really uh... garage rock staples as it was and then from there uh... when i was forming my band sunny days in the weatherman uh... i me and my drummer

Chad (04:14.737)
Oh yeah.

Max (04:40.69)
started to connect on the new garage rock movement that comes out of like the late 90s and 2000s. I recently, very recently had started deep diving into bands like the OCs, Ty Segall, even bands like King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, which I want to say for the record, when I started

the band Sunny Days and the Weathermen. I did not listen to King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. The names have no connection. I just liked the way that they sounded. And the styles, styles had no connection either, even though they started off as a garage band also. So, but I really did develop like a love of the fuzz, fast charged, just sticky.

Chad (05:31.728)
Yeah.

Max (05:33.866)
you know, nightmarish bluesy surf rock, rockabilly garage sound that just really culminates into that noise.

Chad (05:44.756)
I hear that and I hear Stooges, I hear MC5, I hear Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers, I got some ventures. I mean, yeah, like you just outlined everything that I feel like I'm hearing echoes of, but it's such a mashup of all those styles that it just, it works on a whole different level. So congratulations.

Max (05:50.972)
Oh, thank you.

Max (06:04.078)
Thank you. I really appreciate that. I also probably should mention my one of my all time favorites. I mean, you know, the doors are definitely up there. But my probably one of my largest influences writing wise and playing wise to we can get into that if you want is the Velvet Underground and just everything that comes out of that wheelhouse of Lou Reed and just like

Chad (06:24.849)
Oh yeah.

Max (06:32.822)
dark alternative music of the late 60s. I mean, that is really where my heart always sits and something I always turn back to.

Chad (06:43.94)
Yeah, so tell me about the songwriting process. Have you written all the songs or most like, what's the breakup of, breakdown rather, of who's written what on the record?

Max (06:53.106)
Yeah, so three of those songs on there, if you're going through the first song, the song right in the middle and the last song are called Sun God. Those were an instrumental jam that were written by my drummer, Dan, the one that I connected with over the OC's and the New Garage movement. His song is also Dying to See You and the song Money in Hell. Everything else on there was written by me. I think I...

did most of the music for it. The song, Freak Power, the last song on the album, the lyrics are by me and the tune was written by my guitar player, Nate. But for the most part, a lot of what the songwriting process looks like for me is that I will either be jamming on something or I will have a riff or I'll have...

you know, some chord progression and I'll say, oh, you know, I'm gonna start writing some lyrics to it. And usually I have found that most of the songs I write, I write in like 10 to 15 minutes. And it's this quick paced thing of, you know, here's a riff I like, here's something really cool that I've done, you know, let me write lyrics to it. And then I bring the lyrics to my band and I bring the tune to my band. I go, hey, I was screwing around on this.

Like, this is the chord progression that I have, like, you know, why don't you guys write something to it? And within 30 minutes, we have a song written and fleshed out. I have been playing ever since the first iteration of my band, which I can't even really go through how many iterations, we've changed so many members over a period of like three or four years.

But with the first iteration of my band, it was me and my guitar player and a very close friend of mine, Kevin Who helped me really start the band and gave me the confidence to like even play guitar well enough and It was really me coming to him and saying, you know, oh like, you know, I've got this tune to and him going Okay, well like, you know, let me play this over it and then you know, Dan would come in and he'd say okay well, like I can do this on drums and I've the

Max (09:14.958)
The current iteration that we have, it sits at six members. So we have lead guitar player, I play rhythm guitar and do lead vocals, bass player, a keys player, a percussionist, and a drummer. When we were at our largest, we also had a sax player and another guitar player. Pretty much the writing process has always sat about the same in that, you know, I'd bring things to them.

I work with musicians that are musically competent enough and really like very creative, which is something that I mean, I can't say enough good things about the guys that I write with because they really turn ideas that I have into the actual song. And so I always have enough faith when I'm writing with them that, you know, they're going to they're going to do the right thing. They're going to catch the sound. They're going to know what to do.

I mean do I ever have like riffs that I think that maybe like a bass should be playing or that a guitar should be Playing yeah, but for the most part. It's very free range I give everybody the plate the play space to really do what they want With the skeleton format that I kind of bring I'm very much like a one four five writer You know if it's if it sounds fine like that. I don't need to over complicate it too much. I like to I wish that I could

you know, play the jazz, you know, sound or do enough complicated chord progressions. But I know what my talent is and where my talent level sits. And it's not anything more complicated than, you know, maybe five chords and a bridge. So.

Chad (10:58.356)
Well, you know, sometimes less is more, right? I mean, and that shows through in the music. But it sounds like you guys have a really good collaborative sort of way of working and, you know, like a democratic songwriting process, which is really cool. I was in a band in my early 20s and we started out doing covers. It was my first band and sort of the same trajectory as you were. I didn't really have the confidence that I was good enough to be in a band, but I was working at a

small computer integrator in South Jersey and we had a customer come in and he was using some computer stuff in his studio which happened to be in the same building where we were. So the owner was friends with him because you know they had been in the same building you know as businessmen for years or whatever and you know brought him back and introduced him to me and said hey you know this is Joe and you know he's got some issues you know you're gonna help him out with stuff so he invites me upstairs to the studio that I didn't even know existed and we get to talking and I'm like hey you know I play guitar and he

I'm trying to put a band together and I'm like, whoa, whoa. I'm not that good I'm not being quality and he was like he goes do you know like five chords and I'm like I probably know six chords and he goes just bring your guitar come Saturday night. Hang out with me and the drummer and the bass player If you suck, we'll try to get you better. You know, if you're halfway decent you're in the band He's like we're just hanging out having a good time jamming no pressure, you know, whatever So I was like, okay, so he gave me like three or four songs to learn which I did

And I was in the band, like, you know, pretty much from that point on, I think I was, you know, not great, but I was good enough, I guess, with the six chords that I knew to sort of get started. And I learned a lot from those guys, you know, and not only just, you know, how to be in a band, how to play, but also musical taste, because they were a little bit older than I was. So, you know, I was like 23, 24, I think. And these guys were all like pushing 40. Right. So it was like, you know, half a generation.

Max (12:52.568)
Yeah.

Chad (12:56.514)
part in terms of music. So I was bringing in at the time, you know, all the post-Grun stuff like Stone Temple Pilots and Hole and Nirvana and you know all those things. And these guys were like, you know, Hendrix and Rush and Buddy Miles and Grand Funk Railroad. So I got this great education and stuff that I wouldn't necessarily have learned or listened to on my own.

Max (13:13.563)
Yeah.

Chad (13:20.208)
And then at one point we decided that we were going to do originals. Right? So we started the same process where one guy would bring a song idea in. I wasn't really comfortable with writing or coming up with ideas, but I think where my strong suit was, was I was firmly a rhythm guitar player. Joe, the guy that I mentioned, was this amazing lead guitarist. He could play almost anything. You know, he could play jazz stuff, he could play metal, you know, classic rock blues. He was very versatile.

and a lot of, he'd come in with a riff and start playing. And the bass player was also another great musician. He would kick in with a bass line. The drummer would fire off and I'd be standing there like, uh, what do I do for a few minutes? But then once the groove kind of kicked in and I felt what they were doing, I was like, okay, you know, they're playing in this key or this is, you know, these are the chords. So I would just start to weave in little rhythm parts in between and like, you know, either Joe would look at me and smile or he would look at me and be like, raise an eyebrow, like, what the hell are you playing? You know, he was very opinionated, which was great.

Max (14:01.069)
Yep.

Max (14:17.537)
Yeah.

Chad (14:19.262)
because it sort of helped me learn. So over time, we wrote, I think we had like six or seven originals and they were largely instrumental. And then we brought this guy in who we decided we needed like an actual lead singer because we used to take turns just singing on the cover songs. So he came in and I remember this guy, his name was Wayne. Can't remember his last name to save my life and it was so long ago.

Max (14:37.986)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (14:46.108)
But he had lived in LA for a while and was in a Motley Crue cover band. I think he was in a Bon Jovi cover band. And his voice, I mean, he had that like high sort of high pitched heavy metal, treak kind of thing to him, but he could do other stuff as well. So you know, he was just an interesting dude. And he came in and started writing some lyrics to some of the songs. And I'm sorry to say we never did full studio recordings in the studio of any of them.

Max (14:59.605)
Yeah.

Chad (15:16.082)
couple of jam sessions and somewhere I have those on cassette after dig them out and digitize them because I remember some of the songs were actually pretty decent but same thing where it was like, you know, I think over time we all just sort of learn how to sort of play off each other's strengths and work together so it was really interesting.

Max (15:30.622)
Yeah. If you ever find those tapes, you gotta send them over to me. I wanna hear.

Chad (15:35.458)
I might, you know, I'm gonna, if I find them, I'm gonna post them online because I mean, well, maybe not all of them. I think some of them are, you know, some of the rehearsals were not great, but we'll see.

Max (15:38.998)
Heck yeah.

Max (15:45.554)
That's all right. I feel like there's something like I have gotten to a point there was a long period of years Where I didn't like any live tracks that I ever heard bands do and I mean for a while too like I was deep diving into Grateful Dead and I mean So much of the Grateful Dead is like, oh what year do you like, you know Scarlett Begonia's from or?

Chad (16:09.51)
Alright. What show?

Max (16:11.018)
or, you know, like, what's your, yeah, like, what's, what's your favorite Ro, Ro Jimmy, like, you know, from the, oh, 1973, like, and I just, I didn't really like non-studio recording, I didn't get it. And then really in like the last, like, probably three years after playing live, I started to really appreciate listening to bands play live. So I had gotten into

Chad (16:26.661)
Me too.

Max (16:40.39)
Frank Zappa in 2020. And that was, man, you want to talk about like a slow march and actually like shock exposure therapy for like a band. I dipped my toes into Frank Zappa like eight times before I was finally like, I think there's something here. I just need to listen to more. And I had really gotten into like, you know, some of some of his studio stuff, because the studio stuff is, I mean, incredible.

Chad (16:48.616)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (16:57.485)
Yeah.

Max (17:08.79)
But what's even more incredible is listening to how he recreates that live. And there's like so much good live recording of his, of his stuff. Um, and then just diving from there into, you know, other, other bands. I mean, like I mentioned, I'm a huge Velvet Underground fan. Um, and you mentioned Jonathan Richmond. There's a really cool interview that he does where it's an hour of him on some Boston radio and he's talking.

Chad (17:17.497)
Oh yeah.

Max (17:38.07)
the entire time about Lou Reed and the Velvet Underground. Like he doesn't mention his own music, he maybe mentions his stuff like once or twice in relation to like how they let him open for, or how they, yeah, how they let him open for them, or like, you know, something like that. But he just talks about seeing them and what an experience it was. And I never really listened to them live. And to go back and, I mean, of course, I've listened to Velvet Underground and Nico.

Chad (17:41.905)
Of course.

Max (18:06.414)
more times than I can count. White Light, White Heat is one of my all-time favorite albums, so it was loaded. But to hear those songs played live and to really like be able to understand like no overdubs are happening. This is all, this is four people on a stage doing this one, maybe one microphone, if not just like somebody holding a recorder somewhere. Like, and to just hear like

Chad (18:32.889)
Right?

Max (18:35.542)
how much noise they can get and how like disgusting they can feel and how free jazz and free jam they can get like is incredible and is it was incredibly inspiring too of just like you know seeing what it was like to do that live and it gave me a lot of especially finishing up this album.

You know, we've now gotten to a place of doing all of these tracks live. And we were playing all of them live anyway, but the album has a ton of overdubs on it. It's got a ton of guitar parts put together. It's got a ton of, you know, different noises and overdubs of my vocals and all else. And like we started practicing for our album release show and we were turning some of these songs into different like jams.

And so songs like Wasting My Time, Ground Soup, I think it's like fourth or fifth on the album, we had never played that song live. That was a song that we did as a jam one time. It was me, our percussion player, our guitarist, and I think our bass player, like screwing around with it one time, and we made this song.

I had written lyrics shortly after the East Palestine train derailment, which is like 60 some miles from us. And I was sitting next to a tanker train on the highway one day and I just got this anxious feeling and I started writing. And then I went to a practice that day, they started jamming on this chord progression and I started singing these lyrics over it. And then we basically shelved the song and never touched it again. And so then...

we are talking about songs that we want to put on the album and say, Oh, let's put ground soup on it. Never played it. Never did anything with it. So it's like, we're ham-fisting our way through like, well, what do we, what do we do with it? Like we know that this is the chord progression. We know that this is what it sounds like. And so we just started adding noise to it. But when we started playing it live and when we started practicing for our album release show, we turned the end of it into this like high-paced punk jam.

Chad (20:52.24)
Nice.

Max (20:52.434)
And it just like, I mean, it really is this like, it's a show piece, it's a finale piece basically for us now. And it replaced our old finale piece, the Monho Man, and just, it has now become like a, really a staple of our set and kind of a staple in the direction that we're moving as a band.

Chad (21:15.9)
That's a great story. And I love that, like you said, you kind of just had this idea, kind of put it together as a jam, recorded it probably at the 11th hour. And so many bands have done that, where they've like, OK, we have six really great songs, and we need like two more to make an album. We're kicked out of the studio tomorrow at 3 PM. Anybody got anything? I can't think of any examples, but I know there's been more than once that I've read a retrospective or an article about an album. And they're like, oh, that was a total throwaway.

Max (21:37.42)
Yeah.

Chad (21:45.614)
five minutes, you know, and the song became like either a massive hit or just like a massively respected song, you know, as an album cover or whatever. And it just fascinates me that, you know, sometimes creativity strikes, you know, when you least expect it and when you're not sort of planning to make a thing out of it, right.

Max (22:01.206)
Yeah, well, I think it also gives a lot of light to the idea that like, time doesn't necessarily make music better or art better. There's no amount of like, like there's not so many hours that you have to put in before it's like, oh, you've made a masterpiece. You know, it just, it just happens. And you can't like, like what I've always found is that the more that I'm throwing effort at a song or the more that I'm like trying to make it just right or perfect or whatever

That is when it starts to like completely, A, lose interest for me, and B, just not even sound that great. The songs that, like I said, the songs that I've written that I consider to be some of the best ones that I've written, I think I wrote in under 15 minutes. Lyrics and tunes all together.

Chad (22:50.392)
Wow. I just wanted to go back to, you mentioned Frank Zappa too. Same thing happened with me.

in the sort of journey to appreciate Zappa. I think when I was 14, maybe 15, my cousin had a cassette of Joe's Garage. So, and of course, you know, we listened to Why Does It Hurt When I P over and over again, because it was funny, right? And we knew every word to that song and every word probably on, you know, that side of the cassette or whatever. And then it wasn't till I was in this band with the older bass player who was a huge progressive rock and fusion kind of fan.

Max (23:06.799)
Oh yeah.

Max (23:12.271)
Yeah.

Chad (23:28.146)
he turned me on to some more Zappa, he gave me a copy of Apostrophe. So and sort of same thing, right? Like the sort of, you know, continuing gateway into Zappa was the humor, right? It was like Don't Eat the Yellow Snow, Nanook Grubs It. I'm gonna butcher the name of the song, but it's the St. Alfonso's Pancake Breakfast or whatever.

Max (23:32.788)
Oh yeah.

Max (23:46.446)
Oh, San Alfonso's pancake breakfast. Yeah.

Chad (23:48.512)
Yeah, yeah, right. And these are like hysterical songs. But then when you really sit and ignore the funny lyrics and listen to what's underneath, unreal, and I'm in the same camp as you. I'm really a studio guy. I've not seen a lot of bands that I love live for that reason, because to me, it's like the studio versions always trump the live playing. But I think as I got older, and you know, maybe a little wiser, I started to realize, like you

Max (24:05.058)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (24:18.446)
certain things that you can't do in a studio, there's a certain directions that a song can take. You know, whether it's a jam band dragging something out for 1520 minutes, or whether it's just, you know, over time, songs evolve a little bit, right? Like bands will start to play them a little bit differently, they'll add stuff to the end of it, they'll change a lyric here and there. I mean, it's happened to I think a lot of, you know, popular songs, because let's face it, I think a lot of bands get tired of playing the same hits night after night, right? A lot of times they want to change it up a little bit.

Max (24:47.904)
All right.

Chad (24:49.067)
But, you know, again, I credit my bass player, Bill, which, Bill, if you ever see this, you know, hit me up. But Bill was responsible for a lot of my musical education, I think, in my early 20s.

You know, he turned me on to I knew Velvet Underground. I'd listened to a bunch by that point, but he turned me on to Lou Reed's live album, the extended version of Sweet Jane with that sick like 10 minute intro or however long it's like, you know, probably three, four minutes of intro with a dueling guitar leaves before you get into the actual song and just open my eyes to all that stuff. Right. So and oh, yeah, the band of Gypsy's album. So as a huge Hendrix fan and in college,

Max (25:11.493)
Oh yeah. Yup.

Max (25:22.782)
Yeah.

Chad (25:32.866)
When I really started to play guitar, it was Hendrix, it was Jimmy Page, it was Clapton, it was all the usual 60s guitar heroes for me early on. But, you know, I didn't know that Hendrix did a trio album with Buddy Miles and Billy Cox, right? So hearing that for the first time, and it's a live album, I think at some point there had been studio versions of a couple of the tracks that were released, you know, posthumously or whatever. But that album to me is like still one of my favorites, and it's live.

some of those songs in any other format, right? Because of just how great they came together with those three guys, just pretty much jamming on stage, right? Some of the tracks are like 11, 12 minutes long and they could go on forever and I wouldn't mind. Right?

Max (26:12.204)
Right. Exactly. Well, and you know, I mean, Hendrix is such a case too, where it's like, I was I was I can't remember what I was just watching about him, where it talks about Eric Clapton's reaction to seeing Hendrix for the first time. And he's basically just like, Well, I didn't know he was that good. Like the on

this unadulterated understanding of the blues better than any single person in the UK scene at that time. You feel that he knows how to use a guitar better than anybody. And it just, it sometimes hurts to listen to because you're like, I could do that. In theory, I could do that, but it's not gonna be as good as him. Nothing I could do would be as good as him.

Chad (27:02.768)
Hahaha

Chad (27:06.4)
No, it's like Prince. Prince, I feel like the guitar was like an extension of his hands, you know what I mean? An extension of his soul. Like there was no delineation between him and the instrument. Like it was just that seamless. And I think, you know, Hendrix was obviously the same way.

Max (27:21.038)
Right. No, absolutely. See, that's why I take a lot from the school of Lou Reed, which is, I mean, Lou Reed is a very talented guitar player. And there's there is something to be said about that. And I've listened to a lot of his later stuff. And I mean, I again, huge Velvet fan. So like, all of that stuff is really the things that I always gravitate towards. But the man uses a guitar much like a child uses a noisemaker. Like it's very much this

Chad (27:47.769)
Yeah.

Max (27:49.678)
percussive hitting the guitar. And when I talk to people about, you know, what I do in a band, all I tell them is like, I just hit the guitar with my hand a whole lot. Like I make the same chord shape, I slide it up and down and I'm just banging on it. Like, which is only about 50% a lie. You know, I do change chord shapes a little bit. I got the A shape too, so it's not just all E. But it's...

Chad (28:14.258)
hahahaha

Max (28:16.79)
It is a lot of that. And I mean, it really does. I feel like everybody has to have some teacher in that or some kind of master within who they're following and what their sound works itself out to. And I think that, I feel like Hendrix has been a huge one for so many of the great guitar players to come out of post 1960s.

Chad (28:45.668)
Oh yeah, for sure. He's a benchmark. Love or hate the guy for his politics, but Clapton, same thing, although he ripped off a lot of what everybody else was doing, I feel like. Back in the day, I didn't realize that, but I think listening to it, some of his stuff is derivative, but you can't deny Cream as another power trio that was just like off the charts with talent for the brief moment that they were out recording.

Max (29:10.35)
Well, exactly. And I mean, you know, to hit on that too, like, you know, yeah, did he did he take a lot of blues from a lot of different people? Absolutely. The animals did the Rolling Stones did the beat like everybody was they did it. Cream did it so much. I won't say so much better. But they did do it a lot better than a lot of those bands too, because they just had the talent with it.

Chad (29:23.376)
They all did. Yeah. Sure.

Chad (29:38.971)
Yeah.

Max (29:38.998)
I mean, you can't deny Jack Bruce, or for that matter, Ginger Baker, within the powerhouse of cream.

Max (30:01.012)
Oh yeah.

Max (30:09.229)
Yeah.

Chad (30:10.634)
Yeah, oh

Max (30:11.606)
Terrible.

I know.

Chad (30:18.518)
Right. So I mean, again, like, I think this goes back to what we talked about, like studio versus live, like listening to Zeppelin on a pair of headphones, you know, like all the stuff they did in the studio and how the recordings were done. It's just it's like revolutionary. And then you listen to, you know, a bad night of Zeppelin playing live and you're like, Oh, God, they suck.

Max (30:31.984)
Right.

Max (30:36.526)
Yep. I listened to, I think it was Dean Ween talking about how much he loved Jimmy Page. And then he talks about how poorly he plays live. I never knew that. And went and listened to some of his live stuff and was just, I mean, I was laughing. And I had this thought of myself because now, I mean, I've been playing, I was playing rhythm guitar for the entirety of

the start of my band, right? And now I'm at a point where I'm really trying to figure out playing lead lines and really trying to like move in that direction. And it kind of gave me this weird confidence of like, well, if Jimmy Page can go out there and just absolutely demolish it every single time, like who cares what I'm doing, man? I can just screw around. And that's also, I mean, the other side of it too is.

you know, I don't know if you're familiar with the OCs and John Dwyer, but like his playing sometimes can be really sloppy too. I mean, it's, a lot of it is very much like, you know, blues progressions and like fast rock progressions, but it's like every now and then he'll just decide to stop hitting notes and he'll just like start sliding up and down the guitar and making noise on it. And it's the most like beautiful cacophony of noise ever. And it just, it really

I feel like we give so much weight to a really clean recording of a band in the studio playing their best song, playing it absolutely perfectly and playing it... I mean, I think of bands like Steely Dan, right? That it's like everything is so... It's not fake, right? But you know...

Chad (32:19.197)
Hahaha, yeah.

Max (32:24.746)
you're doing like eight hours of takes on some of the, on some of the things that they're writing that like, it's like, well, yeah, it's impossible for you to, you know, pick a bad take at that point. So, yeah.

Chad (32:35.228)
Right. But you know, they're bands, I mean, you know, they're maybe a bad example because they're live bands or just airtight as well, but that's a whole other discussion for a different time. While we're talking about playing sloppy and playing sloppy on purpose, by the way. Oh, and you mentioned this beautiful cacophony. That's Sonic Youth to me. I don't know if you're a Sonic Youth fan at all. Yeah. But I don't know if...

Max (32:57.542)
Oh, yeah, I've dipped my toes in a little bit.

Chad (33:04.3)
You know, talking about sloppy playing sloppy on purpose. I see from your Instagram that you're a punk fan and you mentioned some punk references. So let's go on the other side of, you know, virtuosity and perfection and talk about the real, you know, three chords and who gives a shit bang on the guitar and make great music. What are some of your punk influences and some of your favorites there?

Max (33:26.644)
Well, I mean, I already mentioned the Stooge as I mentioned the MC5. I cannot talk about writing music or playing the guitar without talking about Poison Ivy Roshak from the Cramps. And you want to talk about like simplistic.

Chad (33:39.484)
cramps.

Max (33:44.918)
easy to like digest guitar playing and yet so badass at the same time. She doesn't miss. And when I mean, like she, I'm trying to think when their first albums are coming out, she's not even been playing the guitar that long. Like she, I think they, they formed in like 73 and she picked up a guitar that year and is like playing guitar. And so by like.

you know, 77 when they start recording stuff or 78 or whatever. I mean, really like she is a relatively new guitar player while she is playing. And there is something to be said about, and I actually talked to my, uh, my lead guitar player about this at one point, there's something to be said about just playing a pentatonic scale and there's nothing wrong with that. And so when I.

Chad (34:22.757)
Yeah.

Chad (34:37.528)
Yes. That's about all I can play.

Max (34:42.474)
When we auditioned my lead guitar player, he came in and he had this huge pedal board, and he had this reverend guitar, and he really knew his stuff, right? But at the core of what he was doing for every song was he was just playing blues progressions. And I mentioned this to him one day, and he said to me, he said, you know, I've tried out for enough bands.

Chad (34:58.319)
Yeah, sure.

Max (35:03.99)
that you show up and you're playing the most complicated thing you can play and all the guys are going, yeah, that's all right. And then you just play something simple and everybody's like, that's great. That's some good guitar playing right there. But I mean, definitely the Cramps, definitely. And again, I wouldn't even consider them to be like a sloppy band. They're sloppy elements, but the Dead Kennedys, I mean, huge.

Chad (35:15.78)
Ha ha

Chad (35:30.956)
His guitar parts are, they sound a little simplistic when you listen and you've got that like breakneck speed, punk rock, you know, hardcore driving sound to them. But just try to play some of the shit that he's playing. Not only the technicality, but the technicality at that speed. It's like, my God.

Max (35:49.63)
Right. You know, and the other thing too, and I've listened to interviews with him, really wasn't playing with many pedals. I mean, it was, you know, 1978, 79, whenever they are first getting together, you know, not playing with a ton of pedals. No, not a ton of effects going on. He's not, you know, washing out his guitar. His influences are, you know, rockabilly and surf rock and punk.

Chad (35:57.229)
Right.

Max (36:16.578)
and it shines through in such a beautiful way. I mean, like that's a huge, that's a huge influence to my personal style of playing. But like the ability to just take something easy and over-complicated is a very, very awesome thing. But like I'm trying to think who else? Dead Kennedys.

Um, I, oh wow. Of course, as soon as you ask me, then my mind goes blank, right? Um, I do like Black Flag. A very, very classic, you know, punk band lover. I fell into like, Reagan youth when I was a post-grad. I started to really like the like 1980s...

Chad (36:52.022)
hahahaha

Max (37:12.29)
like 1990s punk movements. I mean, those are really some of the big ones for me especially. I mean, punk is such a wide genre of varying sound. The Clash, I mean, another one, right? Like it's one of those things of like, sometimes you can't go wrong with the classics.

Chad (37:33.328)
for sure.

Max (37:42.419)
I am I will I will admit I am a clash guy over the sex pistols. I think the sex pistols are trash It's a hard stance

Chad (37:50.564)
They were, they were, but they were manufactured trash, right? So I mean, that's, that's the beauty of it. Have you seen the, they did like a, like a mockumentary sort of thing. I forget what, what it was called now, but it was basically like the story of the sex pistols and how the whole thing started.

Max (38:09.303)
Uh, no. No, no, no. I hadn't.

Chad (38:10.456)
I will find the name of it and I'll send it to you, but I'll put it in the show notes for anybody who might be listening or watching because it was really well done. I feel like it was like a mini series kind of thing. And it's, you know.

Max (38:13.888)
Oh yeah.

Max (38:20.769)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (38:23.556)
They talk about how the band formed, but they dig into like how Malcolm McLaren was just always looking for the next big thing and, you know, trying to sort of capitalize on, you know, shock value of everything that he did. Um, what I didn't realize was how deeply involve some other sort of, you know, figure from that time period where like, Christy Hind, I had no idea that she was like intimately involved with the band. I think she dated or, you know, fooled around with, with Steve Jones for a long time. Um,

So I learned a lot. It was cool. I always loved the Sex Pistols, but for me, punk was like the teenage rebellion kind of thing for me. But then after I got over that part of it, really appreciating the music and the politics and sort of all the different bits and pieces behind it. Dead Kennedys is still one of my favorite bands. What are your favorite Kennedys albums or songs?

Max (39:00.76)
Right.

Max (39:14.754)
Oh yeah.

Oh geez, well, so my favorite album, and I think it's always a faux pas for some people, but I'm not a man of faux pas. I'll always openly admit to what I know and what I don't know and what I like and what I don't like. My favorite is probably their compilation, Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death. Otherwise, it's probably Fresh Fruit and Rotting Vegetables.

I do also have a copy of Plastic Surgery Disasters and that is probably a close second as far as like favorite albums. Plastic Surgery Disasters specifically because of the songs like Forest Fire, Winnebago Warrior, Buzz Bomb. I mean just these really like...

very like weird and I mean you can't you can't talk about them without talking about Jelly Be Offering his fucking lyric writing because I mean like just yeah I mean just really hits like such a such a scratch in the back of the head and it's that like perfect cusp of like hardcore and punk that like is happening at that time right and it's still like what I enjoy hardcore I have uh

Chad (40:21.349)
Amazing.

Max (40:43.626)
I have a friend actually who's in a hardcore band now that like I go to more hardcore shows now because that's really what I mean Pittsburgh is very much a metal, a punk and a hardcore scene right like there and a lot of indie rock right so you get a lot of these like weird fusion bands but I've grown an appreciation for hardcore. I still don't listen to it in my own free time because at the end of the day I'm a lyricist, I write.

I like a lot of what is important to me is the lyrics to songs. Um, I just can't like always, no matter what, like somebody tells

Max (41:31.658)
Are we back?

Chad (41:33.285)
Yeah, we are now you get yeah, no worries

Max (41:34.362)
Oh good, okay, sorry, somebody called me. No matter what somebody tells me like, oh, these guys are a very political band, right? It's like, if I'm only catching bits and pieces of it, it's like, ah, it's not doing it the same way, right? So I mean, some of my favorite Dead Kennedy songs are, those three that I said, Night of the Living Rednecks is a really good one.

Chad (41:49.136)
Yeah.

Chad (42:00.22)
Oh god, that's the best!

Max (42:02.322)
So good. It's not even a song. It's some weird like story bit that he does in the middle of it. You know, who doesn't love California Uber Alice or like Too Drunk to Fuck or like, like those songs just really sit at a special place. But I think my favorite is probably Pull My Strings. You know, anytime-

Chad (42:22.924)
I love Pulled My Strings. You know the whole story behind when they played that live, right?

Max (42:27.714)
Right, right.

Chad (42:52.964)
The dollar signs, yeah. I wish there was video or film of that, but I guess there wasn't. There's photos of them wearing the S shirts with the tie. So I'll again, I'll link that up and link an article to the story about that because that was like the biggest fuck you, I think, ever to the music industry. It was great. Yeah, I agree. You know, like I'm also a hardcore fan, maybe not as much as I used to be, but.

Max (42:58.194)
I know. I know, I know.

Max (43:04.243)
Yep.

Max (43:13.082)
Yep. Yeah.

Chad (43:21.044)
Same thing, like, you know, I don't like overt politics in my face in music, depending, it depends. I mean, you know, sometimes, okay, but I think with the Dead Kennedys, it was more, it was subtle and there was humor. So yes, it was very political and it was very, you know, anti right wing or whatever, but always served up with a huge dose of sarcasm and like a wink and a nudge. You know what I mean? So, you know.

Max (43:44.676)
Yep.

Max (43:48.094)
very much from the camp of folk music too. So you wouldn't believe it from listening to our album. But we really, when we started, we were not like really even a punk band. I mean, like, and I don't consider us to be a punk band as is. And if anybody from the Pittsburgh punk scene heard me call us a punk band, I'd probably get thrashed. But.

Chad (43:56.222)
Hahaha

Max (44:15.554)
We really started as this weird like folk kind of vehicle, folk country rock with punk elements and like feel, punk feel to it, right? But a lot of my love and a lot of lyrical inspiration that I've gotten through the years has been through

folk writers, especially, I mean, you know, like Dylan era, but, you know, very much the like, even earlier than that, like 40s, like the first folk movement that hits America and, you know, Greenwich Village and the play playing in. Why am I blanking on the name of the park playing at the square in Central Park.

You know, like that folk movement is very influential to what I first started doing. And really where I would go with it. I mean, I still really write like that. And recently I started taking voice lessons again. And I told, I summed up my problem with singing as I'm singing folk lyrics.

Chad (45:11.608)
Yeah.

Max (45:38.982)
in the time signature of a punk song. So I'm fitting as many words as I can into like, you know, a beat that's going, dun, dun. And I was running out of breath, basically. I mean, 90% of, you know, what my, what the problem with my singing technique was, was that I wasn't breathing enough.

Chad (46:01.425)
It's tough. There were a few songs, you know, the band that I mentioned sort of changed members that basically the bass player and I kind of left and formed a whole different thing with a different drummer and other guitar player.

and went through a couple of different singers over that iteration of the band and focused on covers after that because where I lived, there was really no big original music scene and everything was sort of different. But we did some songs. I sang a lot of lead vocals in that band and some of the songs like

we used

Max (46:47.305)
Right.

Chad (47:05.19)
like asking for breath, you know? Yeah.

Max (47:06.59)
Right. No, it's a lot. And I mean, I do, it's funny because I feel like the album doesn't, the album does not reflect what our live performances are like. And I, it was something that I kind of touched on earlier when we were talking, but you know, I had to kind of come to grips with that of like writing these songs that are going to be different from the album versions versus what we do live.

And so much of what our live performances like is very, very tactile. It's lots of movement, it's lots of singing, it's lots of screaming, it's lots of, you know, doing weird things that we, like just experimenting. It's always just a big experiment on stage every night. So it's, I've really come to kind of respect.

Again, this is one thing that I do respect about hardcore and especially like metal singers I've come to respect what they do with their voice and how they do it and like the amount of vocal fry that goes into it Versus, you know just your standard like pop singing or your standard just you know light airy Singing I mean that can all be very impressive but to see somebody very vocally do something very vocally

Chad (48:12.676)
Yeah.

Max (48:31.758)
Intense and not strain themselves and come up to you afterwards and be able to talk to you is you know, really incredible

Chad (48:36.953)
Right.

Chad (48:40.332)
Yeah, and you know, it's training and it's practice, right? Because you have to be able to get through, like you said, get through an hour or two hour show and not blow out your voice because you have to do it again the next night and the next night and the next night. So, you know, it's unreal. I have nothing but respect for trained singers. In fact, one of the singers in the last iteration of the band

Max (48:49.993)
Right.

Chad (49:01.344)
was actually an opera singer. And she quit because she felt that she was ruining her voice, you know, singing rock and roll stuff, you know, and, and a smoky bar. Right. So she was like, Hey, I can't keep doing this. It's, it's messing up my voice for, for my real, you know, love of singing. So. Yeah.

Max (49:03.443)
Wow.

Max (49:11.583)
Yep.

Max (49:17.326)
Yeah, right. I was a musical theater kid. I mean, I did, geez, I did about 10 years of theater. I have about like five-ish, maybe plus years of vocal training that I did. But the things that I was singing when I was doing all of that was I was singing show tunes. I was singing Sweeney Todd and I'm singing these songs that are...

not punk songs, they're not folk songs. I'm not singing, you know, like I'm singing what people want to hear out of Broadway and what people wanna hear out of musicals, which is a very specific sound. And it's certainly, I have no, I have no FOMO about not being a musical theater adult. But it's, yeah, I mean, that is.

Chad (50:12.777)
Hahaha

Max (50:17.014)
It was a jump from what I was doing. And it was, I mean, I started taking lessons again because I could tell that if I was not going to do that, this would not be a sustainable thing for me. So I had to kind of jump on top of that. And that's just how it goes. There's a right and a wrong way to sing and that's why some punk bands only last about a year and a half.

Chad (50:41.921)
Right. And you know what, why they cancel shows after, you know, a couple of really intense ones. Great. So what else did you want to cover? Anything else you want to talk about?

Max (50:48.506)
Right.

Max (50:54.774)
Yeah, I want I want to I want to do the smash your pass of the Steely Dan albums, man. I Saw it last week and I was so I was so excited by it And then you're like, I'm really trying to move away from this being a Steely Dan podcast while you wear your Becker Fagan shirt I can see it. You can't hide from me

Chad (50:55.972)
Hahaha

Chad (50:59.684)
Ha ha ha!

Chad (51:12.76)
Ha ha!

Chad (51:17.988)
been trying to hide it. It's just that, you know, and I've told the story a bunch of times, but I'll tell it again for anybody who's tuning in for the first time. I did not start this podcast as a Steely Dan podcast. How this sort of happened was, I have this meme page on Instagram memes of the Dan. It got a crazy amount of followers and you know, sort of engagement. That's me.

Max (51:39.979)
I didn't know you were memes of the Dan. I didn't realize that. I'm talking to a legend here. Holy shit.

Chad (51:48.698)
That's a dubious legend to be a part of.

So I started shit posting stuff on Reddit and Twitter a couple of years back. Really got into the whole Steely Dan community thing over, over COVID really made a lot of great connections with people on social media. And I had accumulated a bunch of memes that I made. Um, and I have a whole folder of, you know, ones that I just saved because they were funny that other people made. And I was like, Hey, you know, I'm not really seeing any meme pages that are super active, that are dedicated to this. Let me start one just for the fun of it and see what happens.

You know, I had 20 30 memes sitting in a folder on my computer I just posted one every day and before you knew it I had like, you know 500 followers and I was getting like You know thousands of views on things and it's fun I think it's sort of coming to its I don't want to say it's end but it's slowing down a lot because I mean How many more original memes can I come up with before I start repeating myself? But anyway, all that to say is right around this time

Max (52:35.189)
Yeah.

Chad (52:51.264)
Last year around the same time, I was like, all right, fuck it. I'm starting a podcast. I have this music blog that I want to get off the ground. I think a podcast would be fun. I just want to meet people, talk about music. I don't care what we talk about, whether it's bands, whether it's guitar, whether it's, you know, whatever, anything goes. Right. So I came up with the stupid name RL mass. Um, and took me almost a year to actually get my shit together and, and get the motivation to really do the podcast. So this whole memes of the day and experience sort of springboarded me.

into this because I met other people that were Steely Dan fans, and I found myself having these great conversations with them. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna start the podcast. And right around the time when I had that sort of flash of inspiration again, I met Phil, Steely Phil. And Phil was like, hey, anybody wanna come on my new podcast? I wanna start having guest hosts. So I was just like, yeah, I'll do it, sure. Like, you know, why not? So I was his first actual guest, and I had such a blast doing it. I'm like, all right, that's it.

Max (53:27.937)
Yeah.

Max (53:36.201)
Uh-huh.

Chad (53:51.038)
starting the podcast, recording my first episode next week. So I reached out to a few people and said, hey, you wanna come on, you wanna talk about music. And of course they were all Steely Dan people from the meme page. So anyway, like everybody for the first 10 episodes or 11 episodes or so have really been like hot to talk about Steely Dan. And I've, we've had other things interspersed and I've tried to keep the conversation pretty general but I'm getting to the point now where like, I wanna branch out.

Max (54:02.009)
Great.

Max (54:11.358)
Yep.

Chad (54:21.538)
I don't want to keep doing, yes, we can talk about Steely Dan, yes, we can absolutely mention things and tie it into other topics, but I want it to be less of a focus and more of an occasional thing. So even if I wear the shirt and I geek out. Yes.

Max (54:27.638)
Of course. Yeah.

Max (54:33.842)
No, I feel I have to tell you something and I can't I can't prove this. Okay in 2017 I Started a Steely Dan meme page because there was not one. I couldn't find one anywhere Okay, so I went on Facebook and you it's still up It's called it's called Deacon Blues posting and I made what I believe to be the first Steely Dan meme page and there's like

Chad (54:46.596)
Ha ha ha!

Chad (54:55.907)
Okay.

Chad (55:00.902)
hahahaha

Max (55:02.33)
maybe like eight memes on there that I had made myself. I cannot prove to anybody that I was the first Steely Dan meme page, but I'm like 90% sure that it might've been me.

Chad (55:16.491)
You should grab those and put them on Instagram for everybody to see. I'm not on Facebook, so I will I mean I can ask my wife to look it up but you should.

Max (55:23.83)
I'm gonna send them to you so you can repost them.

Chad (55:26.844)
You should, I'll repost them giving you full credit obviously. That's amazing. Yeah, I didn't become hip to Steely Dan memes as a thing until like I said, probably around 2019, 2020, right around the pandemic, I think is when I really started to notice it. You know, and there's a lot of people that sort of came before. You know, and Twitter's got a pretty big community of folks also, so it's great. So listen, hey, you wanna do a quick smash or pass?

Max (55:30.032)
I will.

Max (55:36.871)
Yeah.

Max (55:50.793)
Yeah, I would love to do a quick smash your pass

Chad (55:55.952)
Give me, Mackenzie and I did the nine studio albums. I think we have time to get through all of them. So why don't you give me just a quick smash or pass on each one? All right, so countdown to ecstasy. I'm sorry, can't buy a thrill. I got excited.

Max (56:02.187)
All right.

Max (56:05.674)
All right, let's do it.

Max (56:09.546)
Oh, hard smash that's pro. Oh, okay, all right, all right, all right. It's a, it's a, it's a, I was, I was. It's a, it's a smash. It's a, it's a light smash though. You know, I'm gonna make it work for it. It's, it's good. I love the Latin influence on it. You know, you really can't go wrong with some of the songs on there. I mean, especially when I find myself humming.

only a fool would say that. I mean, it's a good one, I'll smash.

Chad (56:45.44)
All right, great. Moving on to Countdown to Ecstasy. Yeah.

Max (56:48.33)
Hard Smash, that is my all-time favorite Steely Dan album, probably next to the one that will come later that I will say Hard Smash to also. The combination of the rock and jazz influence mixed together, as well as the lyricism in it is so like, it's so strange.

Chad (56:54.713)
Really?

Max (57:16.87)
And there's so many great, like the song Razor Boy on it. Like, what a metaphor. Who would ever say the Razor Boy? Like, it's just, it's, it's just so good.

Chad (57:22.873)
Yeah.

Chad (57:28.416)
It's that could that way of describing death or the Grim Reaper, right, which is what we think it is that could have come out in 2021 and been spelled Bo I right. Could have been a Gen Z meme.

Max (57:40.21)
Yep, yep, literally, literally. And it could have been, it could have had a trap beat behind it. It could have been, it could have had everything that like a song from now would work. And it would, it would be, it would be great. Everybody would love it. I mean, like it's, yeah, it's, it's great. There's such, there's such a timelessness to, I mean, generally Steely Dan, but anyway, I won't, I won't hold it up on countdown to ecstasy. Ass. Never.

Chad (57:53.284)
Yeah, for sure.

Chad (58:04.216)
Alright, let's move on. Prezologic.

Max (58:08.922)
Monkey in your soul is good, pretzel logic is fine. It's not enough for me to ever say hard smash. I've never been able to do that one enough and it's definitely not one I ever gravitate towards if I wanna listen to Dan.

Chad (58:23.684)
I hear that. That album took a long time to register with me and side two, if you will, is a little bit of a throw away for a lot of people, but I don't know. I've just grown to love it. So I think I'm still smash on that album for sure. Katie Lied.

Max (58:38.314)
Fair enough, fair enough.

Max (58:42.902)
That's a secret smash. That is one that like I always kind of sleep on and then like I listen to it through and I'm like this is just nothing but bangers, man. Black Friday, bad sneakers. I mean like you can't really go wrong with it with anything on there. That has a chain lightning on it too, right? That's one of my all time favorites. And does that, that doesn't.

Chad (59:06.448)
Yeah.

Max (59:10.826)
Does that have your gold teeth too? I was gonna say, which gold teeth won? I think that's really the one that sits for me, right? But gold teeth too, still, so secret smash, but yes.

Chad (59:12.888)
It does.

Chad (59:25.4)
That's a hot take. I mean, a lot of people like Gold Teeth II better. I like them equally, but for Gold Teeth II for me was probably Denny Diaz's crowning moment as a guitarist. That solo, he took bop and played it on the guitar, right? Which is really not hard to do, but just the way he laid it over that track, I mean, it's unreal, like it's otherworldly.

Max (59:43.221)
Yeah.

Max (59:50.478)
Yeah, I think I think lyrically I prefer gold teeth one, especially I mean, the opening line of got a feeling I've been here before, versus you know, who are these children of scheme and run wild? Like it's just like, it's like, oh, dude, come on. Like, so I don't know, I'm a little biased, but like, again, I am a countdown stand, so, you know, take it with a grain.

Chad (01:00:04.113)
hahahaha

Chad (01:00:12.888)
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. All right, moving on to a royal scam. Oh, Max, don't do it.

Max (01:00:25.606)
This is gonna be a hot take. I'm gonna pass. It's, I know. And it's not, it's just, it's not even because I dislike the album. It's not even because I don't like the songs that are on it. I like a lot of them, but it's never one that I go towards. It's never, it's like Pretzel Logic. It's like, as far as it, Pretzel Logic is bottom, right, for me.

Chad (01:00:30.605)
Wow.

Max (01:00:53.038)
And then right below that or right above that one is probably royal scam. I know, I know. Hot take. That's fair. I would respect it if you ended it right here.

Chad (01:00:57.576)
Okay. All right, well, gotta go. Nice talking to you. No, kidding. Um. Ha ha ha.

Chad (01:01:05.772)
No, no, it's all good. You know, everybody has pretty strong feelings on their Steely Dan, and I appreciate all angles. Yeah.

Max (01:01:13.106)
Yeah, the kid Charlemagne kid Charlemagne total banger. I mean like you can't

Chad (01:01:16.432)
Kid Charlemagne and the Fez were probably the only two songs that I really dug on that album when I was younger. It took me a while to let the rest kind of come in. And I think over the years, as I got to understand their sort of progression in their songwriting and in their recording processes and how the whole studio musician thing unfolded, I think I gained a deeper appreciation for like that. That album is a gateway.

Max (01:01:33.822)
right totally

Chad (01:01:46.766)
I mean, you could say scam couldn't have happened without the ones that came before it, but really, really that album changed the band. You know, like, Katie Lied was sort of, they were getting there and they brought in Jeff Porcaro and, but it was still at its core, you know, it was still, I think I put Katie Lied as being closer to the previous three albums than in relation to the other ones. So.

Max (01:01:49.991)
Right.

Max (01:02:11.122)
Right. It's, well, and I mean, like, again, like that, I, it's hard for me to say that because I do think about it. I think about the Fez and I think about Haitian divorce and I think about the Royal scam. And it's like, those are hard songs to sleep on. I mean, they are, they are good. They are good songs, but again, it's one of those things of like, I never, when I'm turning on an album, it's never the one that I, I turn to. And I don't know why. I don't know what it is about it.

Chad (01:02:25.293)
Yeah.

Chad (01:02:40.364)
I want you to go after this, go listen to Green Earrings, listen to The Metal Eight, and listen to the guitar solo, and then just do that, and you'll... Ha ha

Max (01:02:48.01)
See, now you're making me regret my decision because I forgot green earrings was on that one. Because that is, green earrings is a favorite also. Well, I used to have, my mom had a Steely Dan compilation out of my, I think, it's the one that everybody knows and I can't for the life of me think, decade. And when I was in college, I got my first car. I like learned how to drive when I was 18. And I got, we had a CD player in my car.

Chad (01:03:04.964)
Yeah, gold or decade or...

Max (01:03:17.222)
had a binder of CDs from my parents' car and the one that was always in my CD player was that Steely Dan comp album. And I listened to all of those songs. Like I probably ruined the CD with how many times I listened to that album. So anyway.

Chad (01:03:20.985)
Yes.

Chad (01:03:35.099)
Hahaha

Chad (01:03:39.628)
Yeah. All right. Next up Asia.

Max (01:03:42.978)
Um, oh, I mean, it's an obligatory smash, right? Like, I mean, really, like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of Asia that like, I don't necessarily like love, you know, but there's so much, I mean, Asia, Deacon Blues and Peg, by themselves make that whole album a smash. I mean, you know, you can,

Chad (01:03:47.037)
Yeah, right.

Max (01:04:11.914)
you can talk about Black Cow. I mean, it's a great one. The other songs on it that fall out of those three are still fantastic. I love, and what I really do love about that album is the continuity in it. I mean, it really does, it keeps the same sort of sound to it. Like I get, I'm not, I don't know if I'm synesthetic. I don't think that I am.

Chad (01:04:34.799)
Yeah.

Max (01:04:39.614)
But like, I do get colors whenever I listen to stuff. And for me, it does keep those same like very vibrant reds that whole time all the way through. You know, it's a smash. I'm not gonna, listen, if I passed Royal Scam, I think somebody would find me and hunt me down if I sent bats to Asia.

Chad (01:04:49.56)
Yeah, yeah.

Chad (01:05:03.381)
I think Asia's their least polarizing album. It's the one everybody can agree on, right? And I'm not synesthetic either, but what you just said about the whole album being read makes a lot of sense to me on some levels. So I love that description. I'm going to steal that one. All right. So the last of the OGs, Gaucho.

Max (01:05:07.251)
Yeah.

Max (01:05:14.58)
Yeah.

Max (01:05:21.046)
Give it to me. Hard smash, hard smash. I mean, I can't like, that is the album that I always go to, right? Like if Royal Scam is the one, or Pretzel Logic and Royal Scam are the ones that I never go to, Gaucho and Countdown are the ones that I always go to. I will always listen to Glamour Profession.

Chad (01:05:24.46)
All right, good. You redeemed yourself.

Max (01:05:50.926)
I will always listen to Gaucho. I will always listen. I mean, like, I just, the album front to back for me is just, it's a masterpiece. I mean, and again, I mean, that fusion of like Latin with jazz, with rock, I mean, just really shines through in such a beautiful way. I mean, I really, like, Gaucho,

As the kids say, gaucho hits.

Chad (01:06:26.21)
Nice.

I mean, I've said this a bunch of times, but I'll say it again, just like just the instrumentation, I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on this record that we didn't necessarily not hear before, but there are some elements that Gaucho brings that I think are just, you know, sort of where things could have gone, you know, from there had they not sort of decided that they needed that long break. So nice segue into post reunion albums or reunion albums. So what about Two Against Nature?

Max (01:06:57.322)
Again it's a nut it's another one. It's like I never I never listened to it all that much I think I listened to it once and I was like, yeah, this is alright is to against nature has cousin Dupree on it, right?

Chad (01:07:01.273)
Yeah.

Chad (01:07:08.121)
It does.

Max (01:07:10.154)
I like Cousin Dupree, it's a fun one. There's something kinda cheeky about it, it's gross, but like it is, I'm gonna have to pass on that one though.

Chad (01:07:16.778)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (01:07:20.976)
That was a pass for me too, but I want to, I'm gonna give you some more homework. I had this whole conversation, I think it was with Mackenzie and I might've gotten to do this with somebody else as well.

So I'm old enough that I lived through the sort of, you know, I was young when Gal Show came out, I was eight years old, but I remember that following year when Hey 19 was all over the radio. It was, it was a hit. I listened to it. I'm pretty sure I had it on a cassette that I like, you know, have my little boombox and I was recording shit off the FM radio. So, you know, and then growing up and falling into Steely Dan's back catalog and then finding out they were coming out with this new album and Two Against Nature drops. And I was super excited.

Max (01:07:49.042)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (01:08:02.806)
And I went and got it and I brought it home and put it on and I was like, what the hell's this? It didn't sound like Steely Dan and at the time to me that was a bad thing, right? Looking back now that was probably a really harsh appraisal. But over the years since then I've been really resistant to that album. And here's the homework because this is what turned me on to those songs. Go listen to the live versions that they've played after the album came out.

Max (01:08:22.042)
Yeah. All right.

Chad (01:08:31.986)
I guess, you know, 2001 on.

Oh three oh six were good years. I think we're getting into that grateful dead thing Well, what show is it is it good on but those songs just need to breathe I think they needed a live setting so that they weren't so airtight and You know not airtight in a good way like galcho but airtight in a bad way To me too sterile to you know, I don't know what the word is. Oh, well she got up there you are

Max (01:08:56.414)
Yeah. No, yeah.

Chad (01:09:05.119)
But once I started to listen to some of these songs in the live shows that are obviously readily available on YouTube, I started to gain a bigger appreciation for them. So now listening to the album versions is better, right? So that's my take on that album.

Max (01:09:21.656)
the

Chad (01:09:24.236)
Alright, so last one. Everything must go. Really?

Max (01:09:28.015)
Another pass. I gotta be honest, I don't know if I've ever even gotten through all of it. It's one of those ones, I mean it's like, you know, I can appreciate that they're, you know, doing the thing with it, right? Hey! Sorry, my cat is- Pickles! No! She's driving me nuts. I have a kitten at home.

Chad (01:09:46.566)
Ha ha.

Max (01:09:50.494)
I don't know. I think I probably, I'm gonna pass on it, but I think I need to actually go back and give it the proper listen that it deserves. And I think I need to do that with Two Against Nature too. I feel like, I don't know, for so long, I fell into this like loop of like, well, I really only like stuff that's like pre 1980s. And then like, as a result of that, I just kind of checked out as, you know.

as that happens. So I think that I should go back and let him breathe a little more. Cool. I'm going to do it.

Chad (01:10:21.432)
Yeah, I would. And I do that with other bands too. You know, like there are some bands that I like the first half of their catalog and then not so much that the later stuff, you know. So I get that.

Max (01:10:31.358)
Right. No, absolutely. But yeah. All right. Well, thank you for playing Smash and Pass with Steely Dan for me. That did make my night. I won't lie.

Chad (01:10:44.533)
Absolutely, my pleasure. I'm always glad to hear anybody's take on all the albums, so thank you.

Well, so on that note, Max, why don't we wrap up? I always have a final question that I like to throw at every guest because I think it's a good one. I've gotten some pretty good answers so far, so I'm gonna pose it to you. We've just met, we talked a bit. I've got a good sense of sort of your musical tastes and some of your influences, but if there's one song...

Max (01:10:59.926)
Sure.

Chad (01:11:11.96)
that you absolutely love that I would never guess, like a real outlier in your sort of personal music catalog, what would that song be?

Max (01:11:20.478)
Wow. Oh man, I almost wish that I would have known this question beforehand so that I could think on it. A song that you wouldn't expect. I don't know. I mean, I'm a huge, I think for as much rock as I listen to and as much garage as I listen to and you know.

Chad (01:11:25.98)
Ha ha

Max (01:11:46.478)
60s and 70s stuff that I listen to I really do have a place in my heart with jazz You know, I Don't know if I don't know if this is gonna be a like a hot take or not I can't tell because we just had this whole Steely Dan conversation. Um a night in Tunisia Charlie Parker and The there's one version that is Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie And I think that's probably it. No, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna give you a better one

Chad (01:12:03.652)
Yeah, okay, sure.

Max (01:12:16.995)
It is, it's Can I Kick It by Tribe Called Quest.

Chad (01:12:23.14)
There you go. That's the answer I was looking for. Yeah, no, that's great. I'm a huge hip hop nut, so not a surprise. And there's so much of a parallel between that world and the punk and the garage rock and everything else I feel like too. You wanna hear mine or at least mine recently? Not a big country music fan, at least not modern country. I love me some Willie and Waylon and Dolly and Johnny Cash and you know.

Max (01:12:38.986)
Right.

Max (01:12:43.46)
Yeah, let me hear it.

Max (01:12:47.987)
Uh huh.

Sure.

Chad (01:12:53.408)
Hank Williams senior, but I'm not really into modern country, but I've come to gain an appreciation for some of the songwriting. And I'm particularly fond of Casey Musgraves, who's just a brilliant artist and songwriter, but she co-wrote the song, Mama's Broken Heart for Miranda Lambert, who I would never purposely listen to on any other day.

Max (01:13:06.724)
Mm-hmm.

Max (01:13:20.253)
Yeah.

Chad (01:13:23.042)
that I didn't know I had. I think it's the lyrics and it's the chorus and song good songs a good song right like no matter what the genre but I feel like that's a song where you know if somebody got to know me a little bit and heard like you know Steely Dan and Led Zeppelin and Smashing Pumpkins and Buffalo Tom and Pre-Fab Sprout and Lloyd Cole and all the major bands that I really love if I turned around and hit them with that song on a playlist they'd be like huh?

Max (01:13:24.551)
Yeah.

Max (01:13:29.315)
Right.

Max (01:13:48.05)
Yeah. Well, and I feel like that right there is proof that like, you know, a love of music doesn't really, it can't really be defined by, you know, what a genre is. And you can listen to as much as you want within any genre of music. But just because you like a genre or you really only listen to certain genres doesn't mean that like, you know, that's the only thing you like. You just haven't found the other things that you're into yet.

Chad (01:14:17.92)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Um, I used to say guilty pleasure, but I feel like there's no such thing. If you like what you like, yeah, exactly. You like what you like and screwing your body that doesn't like it back. That's right. Absolutely. Well, Max, it's been great talking to you. Thanks so much for coming on. Um, yeah, absolutely. We'll have to have to do it again. Um,

Max (01:14:25.418)
There's no guilt in it.

Max (01:14:30.738)
Right exactly no guilt needed guilt free.

Max (01:14:37.854)
Thanks for having me, man. This was a lot of fun.

Chad (01:14:43.448)
You know, we can do the smash and pass on the solo albums at some point. And, um, you know, I'm going to keep a close eye on your, your band. And next time you guys put music out, you know, have you back on the talk about that.

Max (01:14:56.091)
Heck yeah, can I plug my stuff? You can follow me at the Sunshine Superman on Instagram. You can follow my band, we're Sunny Days and the Weathermen. You can find us at SunnyDays.com.

Chad (01:14:58.544)
Please do, please do.

Max (01:15:20.186)
Yeah, if you're in the Pittsburgh area and want to buy a house, I'm a real estate agent. You can buy a house from me too, and I can fill your ear with knowledge about stupid garage rock and Steely Dam. There it is.

Chad (01:15:25.955)
Nice.

Chad (01:15:34.34)
There you go. Love it. All right. Thanks again, man. Nice talking to you and we'll talk soon. All right. Take care.

Max (01:15:38.522)
Nice talking to you too. Yep, absolutely.