Episode 17 transcript
Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.
Chad (00:02.562)
Hello and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. My guest this week is author Jude Warne. Hi Jude.
Jude Warne (00:08.889)
Hey!
Chad (00:10.434)
How's everything?
Jude Warne (00:12.196)
Doing good. How about yourself?
Chad (00:14.914)
Hanging in there. I'm so glad you could join me. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast. Very excited to talk to you.
Jude Warne (00:20.892)
Of course, I'm happy to be here too.
Chad (00:23.682)
That's great. So let's dive right in. Why don't you tell the audience just a bit about yourself? I have a few topics in mind and we can kind of go from there.
Jude Warne (00:33.116)
Sure. So I'm an author and writer living in New York. And I generally write about rock music from the 1970s, also 60s, 80s and beyond, but mostly the 70s era stuff. And I just finished my new book all about the music of Boz Scaggs, which is coming out early next year by Chicago Review Press. And before that, I published a book on America the Band. It was their authorized biography.
the glorious year of 2020. But I was very proud of that project and I'm happy to talk about that too. And beyond that, I've done different reviews and assorted things. And I also contributed a chapter to the synthology about the band's music. And my chapter was on the Stagefright album. So that also came out last year, I believe.
Chad (01:23.662)
Oh, very cool. So how did you get involved with the project about America? Just curious like how that came to be and you know, what, what sort of sparked your, your interest to write that book?
Jude Warne (01:35.064)
Sure, well I interviewed Jerry Beckley all about his solo album Carousel that was in 2016 when that was coming out. That was for this magazine I write for a lot called The Vinyl District and based on that interview we had and my research and different notes I had kind of compiled up until that moment I was developing these different theories and ideas about their career and different songs of theirs and the trajectories I saw it and then...
getting to meet Jerry and getting along with him so well with our discussion on his music, I started to think beyond that and gradually developed an idea for a larger work which became the biography. And then I pitched it to them, to Jerry, and then developed more of an intense proposal. And then over the course of that next year it was kind of different discussions we had and the idea I had on their...
their work and career, which they were very, Jerry and Dewey and the band were very receptive to. So that panned out very well. Eventually I started interviewing them extensively about their entire career and all their records from different eras. And that came out in 2020.
Chad (02:45.834)
So was the book pretty much done in the can and just waiting for publication when the pandemic hit? Or how did that sort of line up? I mean, I feel bad because that's like worst possible time for that to have happened.
Jude Warne (02:55.548)
I'm going to go to bed.
I know it wasn't part of the trajectory I had set up, nor anyone who had anything going on at that time or that year I realize. But yeah, I think I had turned in that final draft, maybe like February 2020, and it was just going to the printers and it's my understanding that it was one for this press anyway, Roman and Littlefield, it was one of the last projects to go in before everything kind of shut down. And nicely the like printing.
companies were kind of deemed essential businesses so they stayed open and so while the pandemic was breaking out wreaking havoc you know they were able to print the copies and send them out on time which I was very impressed with yeah
Chad (03:41.066)
Yeah, no, that was a lucky break for sure. So before you interviewed Jerry, were you very familiar and a big fan of America's music at all? Or was this sort of like, you met him on assignment and just sort of backed into liking their catalog?
Jude Warne (03:58.336)
I had been liking them for a while. It had been a couple of years by that point. I had gotten started to get more into solo work around that time that I interviewed him so that timing was very good for me. But I had truth be told I came to their particular career story later then I had to other artists that I had gotten into since I was a kid and then teenager. You know it kinda started off with the Beatles and the Beach Boys like a lot of pop people and I was raised in a music
obsessed household, so that was kind of always the conversation going on in a very exciting way for me as a rock nerd. But America, I did get to a bit later. My mom actually introduced me to their music, but that had been going on for a while. But I did feel like I kind of owned their catalog within my household, or a lot of other bands we, my parents and I, spoke about and listened to, or this kind of group.
thing that was going on which was great, like I was being introduced to it, but this, even though my mom introduced me to their work, I kind of got into it on my own where I went into each studio album and started obsessing over different lyrics and different sounds they had going on and then these theories I developed about what was happening in music in each decade and how it affected their certain albums that came out in that decade. That was my own trip, that part of it.
Chad (05:22.51)
Sure, sure. It's funny, I came to them much later and started appreciating their music and their lyrics and the production, by the way, which we can talk about much later as well. I think when I was younger, I don't know if you're familiar with, there was a series of commercials probably in the 80s and it was for this.
of was K-Tel or one of those record companies that were on infomercials or late night TV. And it was Freedom Rock, right? And there was this box set of all 60s hippie music, if you will, all that era stuff. And I just remember there were two guys dressed up in the commercial. And one of them says, hey, man, is that Freedom Rock? Yeah, man, I'll turn it up, man. That was the whole commercial. And we made fun of that commercial incessantly. And obviously, I'm still quoting it 30 years later.
Jude Warne (05:45.875)
Okay.
Jude Warne (06:11.452)
I'm sorry.
Chad (06:13.532)
But that was, I remember distinctly that in the little, you know, montage of songs that they had put in the commercial, I think it was Horse with No Name, I want to say, was in there. So that was like my earliest exposure to America. And then, you know, hearing and growing up in the 80s, you know, hearing, you can do magic on the radio, which is a bop still today, like love that song.
Jude Warne (06:36.54)
Fantastic.
Chad (06:37.862)
Yeah. So, you know, what are your favorite deep cuts or what's your favorite America album? Because I'm just and you know, researching coming into this episode is to speak to you. I started to dig in a little bit as well. And I'm sorry I took this long to sort of, you know, do that deeper dive. So
Jude Warne (06:53.584)
Thank you.
Jude Warne (06:58.656)
I empathize and totally get it. And I personally, Hat Trick is probably my favorite. It's their third studio release. And it was kind of like an odd, a dark horse album for them. It had, you know, they released it coming off of the Ventura Highway second album, Success, the homecoming record, which was a big deal. And then they tried to do something a bit different with Hat Trick. It's not a concept album, but it definitely has more of this decided emotive feel going on.
And the, you know, Muskrat Love, I think, is the opening track, which is a bi- a polarizing song with fans and non-fans alike, given its, you know, goofy quality, but also aural, you know, success, I would argue. It's a beautiful sounding song, but there's a lot of nerdy stuff going on with the lyrics. So it had that track on it, but it also had these different experimental things for them, like the...
Chad (07:44.558)
Sure.
Jude Warne (07:55.796)
song that involves all three of the band members, Dan, Jerry, and Dewey, that they didn't generally all three write together, but they kind of worked on this one major track together and that has a certain sound to me. And it just, it has a quality that sets it apart from the other records that came before and after. Not just the lack of hits in comparison to the great, you know, the intensity of their other hits. They still had tension with it, but yeah, it's an odd album for them.
Chad (08:25.47)
Yeah, I find a lot of third and fourth albums by artists, you know, like you have that smash debut album, everybody, you know, generates buzz around the band and then, you know, the obvious dreaded sophomore slump album, which some bands don't have, but a lot do. And then I feel like on the third album, they're just like, okay, let's try something different, you know, I mean, with given that they have the creative freedom to deal with the record companies not breathing down their neck to make hits. And just, you know, again, reading some of the history of the band that I watched the interview that you did with Jerry and Dewey. Back in 2020. And it's a
Jude Warne (08:33.851)
Yes.
Jude Warne (08:53.21)
Yeah.
Chad (08:55.564)
like the first two albums, you know, didn't, I mean, they had a couple of hits, obviously, but I feel like they thought they weren't going anywhere, right? So they kind of took a step back and decided to sort of rethink how they were making music, or at least that's the impression that I got.
Jude Warne (09:08.08)
Yeah, I think they wanted to take greater risks too. They had kind of had success with these first two records, but they wanted to get more into the production like in a way that the Beatles or Beach Boys would with like Sergeant Pepper or Pet Sounds or something more complex. And this was them kind of doing that. And I think it worked, but in general, I think it's not the album people remember the most slash discuss the most.
Chad (09:34.486)
Well, it's funny you mentioned Muskrat Love because I remember hating that song as a kid, but I was hating on the Captain and Tenille version that was all over the radio, you know. And I didn't realize America recorded it first, but it's not their song, right? That's actually a cover of somebody else's song as well. Yeah.
Jude Warne (09:44.288)
As you can, yeah.
Jude Warne (09:52.428)
Right. Yes, it's a cover. It's an odd, an odd, a unique choice, let's say.
Chad (09:58.902)
Yeah, it's very, but I did listen to their version today as I was, you know, sort of binging some of the tunes before this and, you know, yeah, and I just was laughing. I was like, wow, you know, very odd song choice for those guys. So they worked a little bit with Sir George Martin, speaking of production and, you know, listening now to Ventura Highway and Sister Golden Hair, you know, just the hits really, I guess.
Chad (10:28.437)
and even sometimes at home when I've got headphones on, it'll just pop up and it always strikes me how much space those songs seems to have. The recording is great.
Jude Warne (10:38.464)
Yes, and it's interesting you mention that concept because I'm fascinated by the concept of space and time in music, which is, you know, that's the its currency. Utilizes space and time to create itself. But like you're alluding to, I think. The elegance in a song sometimes is so much determined by what an artist chooses not to fill up the space with just to, you know, because it is tempting with this recording studio at your disposal and all these sonic possibilities that are there, but.
the restraint that certain composers are able to maintain and producers around that and not be tempted into just total craziness, like sometimes certain 80s songs got like that in my opinion, but hearing the elegance that can come through that I really admire. I was discussing it a lot actually in the chapter that I wrote for this new Voss book about the Silk Degrees album, which is arguably his most successful and most people remember that as they should, you know, it's this incredible work. But...
David Page of Toto worked on so much of the album with Buzz and co-wrote most of the songs. And he's so talented at allowing that space to be there. Part of it, I think, is because his father was this great musician as well, and he kind of taught slash took him under his wing. And when I got to interview David, which was very exciting for this new book, but he talked about how his dad was great with
Chad (12:01.496)
Oh wow.
Jude Warne (12:03.332)
coming over to his music and taking an eraser and like getting rid of all this extra arrangement that was probably, you know, very well done but perhaps not necessary and experience affords you that. And I like to think of music, time within music as because so many pop songs are about romantic love or generally touch on that phenomenon, I like to equate it with like a successful love experience. A lot of times it's determined by...
the amount of time spent together, especially at the beginning and the amount of time spent away and how mathematically that balances itself out. Both moments are necessary. I talk about this in the Boss book too. But I think about that too with arranging pop songs and leaving space, knowing when to leave, knowing when to come back into the music or into the relationship, whatever it is, adds to this or creates this elegance that I look for in music.
and elsewhere of course, but music, maybe.
Chad (13:06.014)
No, same. I mean, it's like negative space in visual art, right? It's the same sort of thing. And, you know, I forget, I'm probably going to misquote this. I'm not sure which famous jazz musician said it, but they said, what's more important are the notes that you don't play. Right? And yeah, and I've always felt that way about music too. And
Jude Warne (13:08.67)
Great.
Jude Warne (13:19.041)
Right, exactly.
Chad (13:25.27)
You know, I am an audio nerd. My dream when I was younger was to be an audio engineer, like a producer, that sort of thing. You know, it didn't come to fruition, obviously, but I geek out on listening to records and hearing how things are engineered and produced.
Chad (13:44.018)
some of the great engineers and producers from the 60s and 70s like George Martin, it's just amazing to me what little technology they had to work with, but yet how they got everything to sound so good and let the instruments breathe and everything else. And then you move into the sort of second generation of recording consoles and studio technology. And then you've got like Steely Dan and...
you know, they didn't EQ anything, right? It was all about mic placement. They would spend hours getting the mic placement correct because then they wouldn't have to EQ the track. They didn't use reverb, right? They recorded everything dry. They might apply a little bit here and there, you know, when they were mixing after the fact, but basically they got the most pure sonic quality out of the musicians and the instruments that they could, and that goes a long way, right? And less is more, I guess.
Jude Warne (14:16.184)
Yes.
Jude Warne (14:36.76)
It really does and it kind of mirrors how the more technology developed and moved along and how we are now with all of our devices, all of us iPhones and the internet and everything that affords all these different apps and how that kind of takes your attention away all day long and keeps you busy. It's kind of mirrored with the lack of technology so to speak from the 60s and 70s that maybe allowed more or spoke better to that kind of space. That actually is a better listening experience I would say.
Chad (15:06.506)
Yeah, agreed. I like to hear all the instruments and all the nuance. I was really upset during the loudness wars of the 90s and the early 2000s. You know, and it just blows my mind when, you know, you look at a waveform on a screen and you look at something that was recorded in the 60s or 70s or even the 80s versus something that was done, you know, 10 or 15 years ago. And it's just like this, this oversaturated flat line of, of sound and there's, there's no space, right? So it's just, yeah.
Jude Warne (15:10.651)
Right.
Jude Warne (15:15.437)
I'm going to go to bed.
Chad (15:36.426)
So I'm really excited about the Boz Skaggs book. I didn't realize you were completely done with it. I guess it's just waiting to go through the publication cycle now and you said it's coming out next year.
Jude Warne (15:46.156)
Yes, I believe in January of 2025. But yeah, I just edited it again and sent it back. So it's moving along and it's on time that way. So I'm glad to be at this stage of it at the very beginning again, because that's always a job.
Chad (16:03.234)
So, I mean, I know, you know, I don't want to spoil anything, and I'm sure there are things you can't tell me, but how did you get involved in that project? And, you know, what were some of the highlights, I guess, of doing the research and some of the interviews and things for that book?
Jude Warne (16:16.86)
Sure. Well, I wanted to follow up my America book with another longer work. Right after that, around 2020, when the America book came out, I had different projects I was working on develop for a time and for one reason or another, they didn't always pan out through to the end, but once I had this Boz idea going, it really seemed to take on a life of its own, where it received good responses from, you know, people I trusted with my ideas on it.
developing it and seeing if it could work as a book. And I think it really does. And it's largely, you know, the subtitle of the book is Slow Dancer, the Music of Boz Scaggs. So it's really all about the music, which is generally how I write. It's not so much a traditional biography that goes into different personal details and stuff. It's more about the records. So, and Boz's catalog is generally, yes, there's a great amount of
press interviews from over the years and accolades of course but there isn't a long-form work at this time yet so I felt that was lacking in the theoretical marketplace too so I like to feel that need as well when that is when I sense that that's there so it did work out yeah and it seems it's going along well you know I'm excited about it too and the different interviews I got to do with some of the people he worked with was very exciting
for me as a fan and writer and stuff and that always makes the book more interesting to fans too I think because there's a lot of my ideas about every record he did but then peppering it with these new and exclusive interviews with certain artists is a lot of fun I think.
Chad (17:56.798)
Yeah, I love reading stuff like that and hearing different people's perspectives on, you know, how a recording session happened or, you know, why this decision was made in the studio or.
have you and even from the artists themselves on songwriting you know like what things mean what they don't mean and you know there's a lot of artists that'll say you know i'm not telling you what this means it's personal or you know it's up to the listener to interpret it and that's fine but you know Boz is somebody else who i knew the hits right you know low down and miss sun and look what you've done to me and you know all the radio stuff but sort of came to him a little bit
Jude Warne (18:10.969)
Yes.
Jude Warne (18:16.252)
Thank you.
Jude Warne (18:25.809)
Yes.
Chad (18:36.684)
he's done. He did like an unplugged, I think, or you know, something along those lines. There's a few tracks that were out from that I fell in love with a few years back. And then seeing him in the Dukes of September with Michael McDonald and Donald Fagen, that was just amazing. And I really got a good sense for what an amazing guitar player and singer that he is, you know, just not realizing that previously, I guess.
Jude Warne (18:52.294)
Yes.
Jude Warne (19:03.032)
Right, and I totally get it, and I think that part of what I want, I would like readers to take from this book, is the different phases musically that Boz went through, where he did have that disco-ish dance, 70s pop sound going with silk degrees, and then the immediate follow-up records down to, then left, and then Middleman that went through to 1980. And then he took a long hiatus away from the recording industry, which is an interesting story. But...
Prior to that, he worked with the Steve Miller band and did some great work with their first two albums. And then really his first love is the blues and he went more into that at the earlier part of his career. So that's a lot of fun to, I think, read about and to consider just his, it's a testament to his musical talents and his special quality that he can kind of go across genre.
Chad (19:33.568)
Right.
Jude Warne (19:55.024)
blues, dance, music, pop, and then he did some standards albums in the 2000s that I discuss as well in the book, which is another musical scene. And it's just, it allowed me to as a writer to get into these different histories of the genres and, you know, talk about all different kinds of music, which I like doing.
Chad (20:12.746)
Yeah, that's great. Some of his session people that again, spent some time today re-educating myself. I didn't realize the guy's name is actually escaping me. I need to go look it up. You might know it. He plays lead guitar on low down. And it's Louis, I can't think of his last name. Hang on, I'm gonna find it.
Jude Warne (20:37.017)
I always think of the touring band which has Steve Lukather joined shortly after that which was very exciting and I talk a lot about that in the book because he kind of stayed with him for a while on the studio records anyway. And he was in Toto of course as most people know and still is but he's one of my favorite guitarists ever and it was also a lot of fun to get to interview him for the...
book, he's a very colorful storyteller, so it's nice to know I've seen other interviews with him. And it was great, and their memories are very well articulated, I find, the Toto guys especially, who remembered things from a long time ago and had some great insights into it still too.
Chad (21:03.688)
He is.
Chad (21:20.382)
Yeah, those guys are all amazing. And it's kind of funny when you think like Toto was pretty much everybody's backing band in the seventies and eighties. I mean, like Michael Jackson and Boz Skaggs and, you know, countless others. Louie Shelton as the guitar player who plays the lead, the lead part, um, solo on low down, a, I never realized it was him B I didn't really know who he was. The name sounded familiar. So I went and went down the rabbit hole today and
Jude Warne (21:28.568)
Yeah, it's true.
Jude Warne (21:34.734)
Yeah.
Chad (21:46.078)
What a career this guy, you know, he was a member of the wrecking crew played on pretty much everything so This is the kind of discovery that I love to do is you know I'll revisit an artist or I'll find somebody knew that I wasn't really aware of before and then I'll just sort of start drawing all these lines outward and you know, it's amazing how you sort of land on some of the same people, you know, like the Toto guys and
Jude Warne (22:13.476)
Yeah, I love that too. And just tracing, when you start reading liner notes more and who plays on what record, especially from the boss story, he has such a great lineup of different people he worked with, like working with Duane Allman on his first real solo album. He did one first album, Boss, in Sweden first, in 65, I believe, but it wasn't printed.
In terms of that many copies, it kind of went out of print, and a lot of people consider his first album to be the album he released in the States that Jan Wenner worked with him on, and Dwayne Ullman does some of the guitaring on that. And of course, he's such a guitar legend. It's another interesting anecdote of the story.
Chad (22:58.754)
Great, well I cannot wait to read this when it comes out. Ha ha ha. I know when you're so close to something and you kind of step back and then you know, you have to sort of look at it with fresh eyes. I know how that is. Wow, that's, yeah. So off top of your head, do you know?
Jude Warne (23:01.484)
I'm glad, I'd be too. I mean, I've read it, but I can't wait for it to come out.
Jude Warne (23:11.433)
Yeah.
Jude Warne (23:15.952)
Yes.
Chad (23:21.102)
Because again, pleading ignorance here, which Steve Miller cuts that people would know did Buzz play on? Because I knew it was early in Steve Miller's catalog when he was in the band, but.
Jude Warne (23:33.76)
Yes, so it's their first two real studio albums, the Children of the Future album and then Sailor. And they were very, especially in comparison to the 70s major album success that Steve Miller had, these are definitely more 60s and experimental and definitely of their time. They're great works in and of themselves. And Boz has a couple of songs on each record. Baby's Calling Me Home is a...
It's a beautiful song anyway, it has this kind of hypnotic beat to it. And that's on those early records. And then, Diamond Dance Romance is on the second Steve Miller album that Boz is on. And I see that as this kind of sonic moment that articulates Boz's finding of himself as the solo artist, who I believe he already saw himself as, but just the power of that particular recording to me really resonates as like.
this moment that's anticipating what's to come, this kind of powerhouse song that Boz takes over, he sings lead on it, and it's this incredible rock track that has a very similar guitar riff to Jumpin' Jack Flash by The Stones, but it has its own quality to it, and it kind of, to me, takes on a life of its own as you're listening to it, where the instrumentalists are trying to keep up with the power of the song, and it just, it almost, to me, sounds like a sorcerer or something.
conjuring up this magic out of this new place, because he was kind of just forging this new sound that was gonna be just him. And he was as powerful a lead musician as Steve Miller was and is. So it made sense, of course, but as you'll read about in the book, there was a bit of, you know, as there is with any, when any band member departs a band, it got a bit, you know, not.
Chad (25:15.509)
Yeah.
Jude Warne (25:29.536)
fun for a while right before Boz left in terms of getting along musically with Steve. So that's an interesting part of the story and timing-wise when I look at the total trajectory it makes sense that happened at that time.
Chad (25:45.558)
Yeah, and I can see two strong songwriters, guitar players, singers, personalities starting to clash and being like, okay, you know, this is my band. Yeah, but I have something to say. And right. It happens so. Yeah, it happens so often, I think in a lot of bands. I had a pretty cool Steve Miller moment that I'll share. Not the man himself. But a few years back, pre pandemic, Metropolitan Museum had an exhibition, I can't remember what it was called.
Jude Warne (25:55.844)
Exactly. It's a familiar story.
Jude Warne (26:05.764)
Thank you.
Chad (26:15.472)
It might have been called Play It Loud and they had all these musical instruments from just every famous person you could think of, mostly guitars, but there were some drum kits and some keyboards and things. So not only did I stand inches away through, I'm sure, bulletproof glass or whatever they have it in, one of Steve Miller's guitars, but actually the synthesizer that he used to record Fly Like an Eagle.
Jude Warne (26:15.704)
Yes! I saw that.
Jude Warne (26:34.576)
Thank you.
Jude Warne (26:41.712)
Wow.
Chad (26:42.83)
And that was like a chills moment for me because you know, that's such a just landmark song Yeah, so that was my little Steve Miller moment and I got to see Steve Miller band live Probably mid probably the mid 90s. I want to say it was and Eric Johnson opened for them. So that was an amazing show Yeah, it was just like three plus hours of just you know, top-notch music
Jude Warne (26:47.804)
Totally.
Jude Warne (26:53.753)
us.
Okay.
Jude Warne (27:00.152)
Oh wow.
Jude Warne (27:06.384)
That must have been great. I saw him play. He's had been getting more involved with the Jazz at Lincoln Center organization here in New York. And he did some blues shows that I actually reviewed for Jazz Magazine a couple of years ago. But it was such an interesting show because it was definitely him really going to the roots, which is very similar to Boz and his musical roots with the blues, the Texas blues especially. So yeah, I'm a big Steve Miller fan.
Chad (27:29.654)
Right. And, oh, me too. And yeah, Steve's from Texas. Boz is from Louisiana, am I right? Oklahoma, okay.
Jude Warne (27:36.812)
I think Oklahoma, but then he spent a lot of time in Texas as a young person. He and his family were there, I believe. And that really influenced his sound and how he related to music and the different radio stations that were available to him as a kid and teenager and stuff.
Chad (27:52.814)
sure.
Chad (27:58.37)
Neat. So one other thing I wanted to talk to you about, I got really excited when I saw this on your website. So you did your master's thesis on Springsteen's darkness on the edge of town. Can we talk about that? I have to say hands down my favorite Springsteen album.
Jude Warne (28:09.284)
Yes, yes we can. Yeah.
Chad (28:18.646)
And maybe I could just tell you my Springsteen story. Growing up in New Jersey in the 70s and 80s, Springsteen was omnipresent. I was in South Jersey, so not maybe as much as the North Jersey contingent. But definitely, he was all over the radio and New Jersey's native son, right? So growing up, I didn't really get into Bruce that much. Born in the USA was obviously a massive hit. It was all over the radio.
really cared for the song, you know, and then everybody was flipping out when he released the triple live album, the live 1975 to 1985. It was like a box set sort of thing. I remember my cousin had it. I remember
listening to it and you know it was all live stuff and I didn't know any of the original songs really so it sort of I guess colored some of my perception of how those songs were because you know he was pretty faithful to them live I think but then you know I think for me Bruce became sort of a footnote of my teenage years I didn't really get into him that much so fast forward to me being in college and you know having no aim in life and feeling really lost and depressed as you know a lot of people do in their early 20s right
And I remember somebody that I was friends with in school.
we're talking about Springsteen and they're like, oh, darkness is my favorite album. And I'm like, what's darkness? And they said, Darkness on the Edge of Town. You should check it out. You would love it. I'm like, I'm not a big Springsteen fan. And they're like, No, no, go just go get it. Get that get Nebraska listen to them both, you know, come back and report back to me. So I think I went and picked up a used copy of darkness in a record store for like three bucks or something on cassette, threw it in the car, you know, and I don't know, I just I connected with it.
Chad (30:09.182)
I don't know why, I think just the sort of...
You know, the theme of the album, the lyrics and some of the songs, you know, the musicianship is always top notch with Bruce and his bands through the years. But for some reason, this album just really spoke to me. And that led me, you know, to go check out Nebraska and the river. And I went backwards before the 80s, you know, fist pumping, anthemic Bruce and went back to greetings from Asbury Park and Wild and Innocent East Street Shuffle.
Jude Warne (30:40.196)
Yeah. I love that I'll-
Chad (30:42.892)
like, wow, had no idea he was this deep and this amazing, right? So that album was my gateway to like a whole new love for Springsteam.
Jude Warne (30:53.196)
I feel similarly in that it's interesting you mentioned the age you were when you got into that particular record. I think the age I was in grad school and I was seeking a subject that made sense to me that I wanted to write about for my thesis, I was definitely going through a bit of that time. That kind of time, looking to see what I really wanted to do in life and thinking about becoming an adult in quotes but going away from the world of school into the other world.
And I think that album really spoke to me too at that time because so many of the themes on it are you know speak to that feeling of redefining your creed that perhaps you developed as a child in terms of what was most important to you in the world and in terms of being alive and how you wanted to live and kind of taking that creed and applying it to the adult world so you could live within the new adult world but not totally compromise who you really are and that's such a difficult thing to do. And I think part of what darkness does so well is explains different elements of that, like the title track. It's very kind of anthemic but just kind of stating a creed of how Bruce or his character in that song wants to be strong and, you know, true to himself. But
Chad (31:52.831)
Yeah.
Jude Warne (32:17.344)
still in and of the world, not removed from it, which is very appealing and appealing concepts to anybody but a younger person in particular.
Chad (32:26.858)
Yeah, and he always has this, he always has this sort of theme of, you know,
I guess, wanting to get out, right? I mean, so many of his songs are about leaving and, you know, Born to Run and Thunder Road and, you know, all the songs that are just like, hey, we gotta get out of here. And, you know, kicking off track one on darkness is Badlands, right? You know, we gotta get out of these bad, it's, I don't know. But it doesn't get old because he tells the same story, maybe, but he tells it in such a different way and with a different sort of cast of characters that I feel like it still works, you know, album after album.
Jude Warne (32:38.648)
sleep.
Jude Warne (33:04.94)
It does, it really does. And that's kind of why it was my immediate choice to relate rock music slash this Bruce album in my thesis to like literature specifically, but my advisor kind of, you know, steered me in that direction with the English department, like write about a book too. So that's where I got to Winesburg, Ohio, which what by Sherbert Anderson from I think 1919, it came out as a short story cycle.
And it's funny, later I read, I didn't realize it at the time, but Bruce had read that text while he was working on darkness, I believe, or just that he was very influenced by that writer anyway, so it was like, aha, I knew it, you know? That was a fun moment, but if you read that work, which is a very, it's short, and it's all about these different characters in this one small town, but they're all kind of dealing with that same phenomenon of feeling a bit stuck or wanting to escape, as you said.
Chad (33:38.887)
Oh wow.
Jude Warne (34:00.872)
and it's interesting to see those themes come alive from, you know, the early 20th century and still be at play in the 70s when this album came out and then it's just kind of an eternal theme I think, but it was fun to relate those things together for me.
Chad (34:16.426)
Yeah, and Springsteen always lists like Woody Guthrie as an influence, right? And that, that whole sort of era of, you know, songwriting and, and as well as, you know, I know he's got some, some favorite authors. I think he says that, you know, he was influenced by Steinbeck as well. So it kind of makes sense. And honestly, you know, until today, I did not know of Sherwood Anderson, but I'm definitely going to go check out Weinsberg, Ohio while playing darkness in the background, you know.
Jude Warne (34:20.257)
Yes.
Jude Warne (34:38.456)
Yeah, at the same time. I have done that, so it's a lot of fun. Yeah, I'd be curious to hear what you think, because it really hits, especially if you're tuned in to these works at the same time, it seems, I believe it seems very obvious, not obvious, but just apparent that they're similar that way. And it's very exciting. Like, there's one character who was one of my favorites. I don't remember her name from the short story cycle, but her story is just about how she...
kept waiting her whole life for like something to happen. She kept thinking something was going to happen to her and she kind of starts to realize that it's not going to. And at that point you should, I mean, I would like the character to have been like, okay, well here's what I can do and take their agency back. And if I remember correctly, she doesn't really do that. She just kind of accepts that that's her life. But it's a similar feeling, I think, that comes up in the Bruce work a bit too.
Chad (35:34.026)
Yeah, it's almost like Dark Side of the Moon and Wizard of Oz.
Jude Warne (35:38.388)
Yes, crazy fever dream. That sounds really fun.
Chad (35:44.634)
But you know, the other funny thing with Bruce and it happens on darkness too is like he's his other themes are like, you know, cars, right and racing and girls, right? There's a Yeah, yeah. So I was gonna say, I was gonna ask if you were familiar with prefab sprout and specifically that song because I think when I heard the prefab sprout song for the first time, probably
Jude Warne (35:52.64)
us cars and girls. You know. Ruff it on.
Chad (36:07.886)
probably 1990, 1991. It was great because you know, it's like, hey, they're making fun of Springsteen, you know, he sucks. And then, you know, which is right around the time when I sort of had this sort of epiphany about Bruce and then, you know, looking at it now, it's almost like a, it's kind of a love song to Bruce. I mean, you know, that's you can take it as Patty McAloon making fun of Bruce's music, but at the same time, I feel like it's, it's like gentle teasing, you know, I think it's well intentioned.
Jude Warne (36:14.14)
Thank you.
Jude Warne (36:37.144)
Yeah, I'll have to check it out. I know that band, but I would like to listen to this song in more detail.
Chad (36:43.25)
Yeah, well, the chorus says, you know, some things hurt more much more than cars and girls. And he calls out Bruce by name, you know, the opening line is Bruce. He dreams life's a highway, you know, it's just it's great. Yeah, and it's kind of funny that, you know, I got into these two things right around the same time. Great.
Jude Warne (36:50.665)
Hmm. Interesting. Oh, wow.
Jude Warne (36:59.023)
Interesting.
Jude Warne (37:05.05)
Yeah.
Chad (37:08.91)
So anything else on the whole Springsteen song cycle or?
Jude Warne (37:14.488)
Um, sure, I'm trying to think. I just love that whole record. Promise Land, I believe, is on there, which is another kind of anthemic song, similar to Badlands in a way. And Something in the Night is perhaps my favorite track from that whole record. That has a lot of that feeling, I think, sonically, like being restrained, trying to figure out what to do. And it still sounds like someone driving around in a car. A lot of the songs have that...
Chad (37:32.95)
Yeah.
Jude Warne (37:44.028)
vibe going on. But there's also such power in the way he delivers, Bruce delivers those vocals and there's so much emotion in that song so that's probably my favorite. And then there's Racing in the Street I think is on there which is such a downer of a song in a way and it's funny because it's an antithesis of the what the title would suggest like this exciting fun racing song and it's so slow and kind of to me you know tries to articulate the
the restraints that are maybe in kind of working class community and the habits and things these people do for fun and to entertain themselves and stuff and the kind of boring dead end that can be. I remember when I first listened to that record I was kind of surprised by that particular song. I still am. Sometimes I skip it. Can I say that? It's just not, it doesn't have as much power. It has its own kind of power but just musically it's not, it's a bit of a downer frankly.
Chad (38:33.579)
Ha ha ha!
Chad (38:42.098)
Yeah, I agree. It's a real, it is a downer. That's a great word for it.
And yeah, something in the night toward the end of the song when it goes down to just the vocals and the kick drum and then that jangly guitar brings us back in like that's a moment for me, you know, I love that part. And incidentally, it's funny you said about like, you know, people driving around and stuff. I mean, I listened to this album in my car late at night, driving around because, you know, college dorm, right, roommate, like, you know, couldn't
Jude Warne (38:52.909)
Yes.
Jude Warne (39:00.229)
I love it too.
Jude Warne (39:08.188)
driving around. You were living it up. Yes.
Chad (39:17.512)
wear headphones so I would just sometimes you know be like okay I'm going out for a few hours and just hop in the car and drive around and you know crank music and this was always in the tape deck.
Jude Warne (39:27.78)
It's a very American thing to do in a way, to that image of being out on the highway at night and kind of conjures up to me like the Jack Kerouac thing which I love of, you know, on the road and thinking about how that's a bit of an American, can be an American experience with imagining all these highways just going out across this huge country that we have and all the different elements of the country that kind of seem to cancel the other elements out while you're there but it still keeps going on forward which...
which is interesting. And then thusly kind of it relates well to the American rock and roll history, which is fun to think.
Chad (40:06.134)
Yeah, and you know, going back to where we started with America, right? I mean, Ventura Highways, like the quintessential, you know, top down windows open in the summertime song, because that's, that's what it evokes. And, um,
Jude Warne (40:11.331)
Nice.
Chad (40:19.678)
you know, just driving the Pacific Coast Highway, which I've never had the chance to do. But, you know, hopefully someday. Yeah, I would. Me too. I would love to just drive that, that whole thing, you know, top to bottom. And one of my dream things that, you know, maybe I'll, maybe I'll do it when I turn 60 or something, which is always off. But I've always wanted to drive Route 66. I know it's not the same as it used to be years ago, and it's probably very over romanticized, but always wanted to, you know, rent a car, run a convertible.
Jude Warne (40:23.212)
I haven't either. I really want to. It's on the list.
Chad (40:49.632)
in Chicago, drive all the way out to California, and then like fly home. Just do that week long road trip, however long it would take, and just sort of see all the sights. So maybe that, and then maybe I'll combine that with staying in California and doing the PCH, we'll see.
Jude Warne (40:53.648)
That sounds great.
Jude Warne (41:05.964)
Yeah, that would be a lot of fun. I think too, like the experience of driving along distance is that one of the closest things we have to feeling physical freedom, just that you're, you know, have access to greater speed or able to achieve a greater distance in a shorter amount of time than you would if you walked, but it does have this kind of magic quality. You can romanticize it, I get it.
Chad (41:27.242)
Yeah, oh for sure. Great, well you made me this fantastic playlist because I always ask my guests to send me music because I like to get especially somebody that I don't really know.
Jude Warne (41:32.608)
Oh yes.
Chad (41:37.614)
I love to get a sense of what they listen to, you know, like whether it's a favorite band, whether it's a favorite song, but you gave me this wonderful playlist and why don't you talk me through some of the top tracks on it. I know you said the first part was really your favorite songs of all time and then you threw in some choices of Boz Skaggs and some Steely Dan, but what else is on there that really is always in hot rotation for you?
Jude Warne (42:04.16)
Yes, well, as a writer and listener, I have always been fascinated by the concepts that I guess we all deal with every day in some way if you choose to view it this way of, you know, facing these spiritual reality we have and the physical reality we're forced to live our lives through and how those kind of work with each other. So certain songs that I pick and that I go to as my favorite songs of fun, asked or something, or it comes up in conversation.
have that theme in a way. So on the list there's Duncan by Paul Simon, which is more of an innocence to experience story song. I love that song so much. It's a great example. I think of the, like if you think of a coming of age novel or something, when we're young, and it can happen at any age I suppose, but in stories it tends to happen to younger.
people, you're kind of looking for these things and experiences to convince you to stay in the world. I mean, it's not a conscious thing, but you need to kind of be convinced as like, this is a wonderful place, you should stay here. And Duncan does, the song does a great job of showing that, you know, how you can do that. That song does it with the, you know, losing innocence literally, like the sexual experience, which I think is told very beautifully in that song from the limited perspective of that character.
Chad (43:08.568)
Hahaha
Jude Warne (43:29.)
And then other songs on my list have a similar thing going on like Paper Thin Hotel by Leonard Cohen is one of my favorite songs of all time, hence it's on the list, but um It also deals a bit with that If you're familiar with the narrative of the story it's kind of told from the perspective of Leonard Cohen singing as this guy who's overhearing his ex-girlfriend in the next room at this hotel and he hears her, you know, making love with this other guy and he kind of has to listen to it.
But he uses it as an opportunity to transcend the limitations that ego presents us with in this physical world and kind of go into the spiritual perspective where he's able to kind of love it because he loves her and he loves being alive and he was able to let her go and it's this kind of beautiful amazing moment that I think rarely happens in real, you know, in our world. But just the way that song tells that.
story is fascinating to me. And then another song on the list is Every Grain of Sand by Bob Dylan, which is more of a, has a lot of biblical references in it, but it also kind of articulates the struggle slash just switching back and forth sometimes we do of between spiritual awareness and then living literally in the physical world and what we're confronted with all that.
all that stuff. So that's one of the themes that comes up for me for like favorite songs. And then I have these other just favorite songs that I love anyway. And then some that I didn't put on the list, like I was thinking of my favorite rock and roll songs of all time. And that would be like ACDC, You Shook Me All Night Long, so amazing. And then Eddie Cochran from the 50s, I think, Cut Across Shory also has a similar, yes, they're totally different like sounding songs, but there's this energy that to me is really defines rock and roll.
Chad (45:06.933)
Oh wow.
Jude Warne (45:20.58)
feeling can generate being at a rock concert or just being a rock listener or something. And both of those songs have that. So I didn't put those on there, but sometimes I like to think about, you know, more in a genre based way too.
Chad (45:35.402)
Yeah, sure. And I'm the same way where, you know, I have favorite songs across all these different genres. And what I appreciated too about your playlist is some of the songs from these artists are not the obvious cuts, right? Like they're pretty deep. You know, bold as love. I don't know anybody who puts bold as love on a playlist. I love that song.
Jude Warne (45:47.908)
No.
Jude Warne (45:53.32)
Now you do.
Chad (45:54.75)
Now, now I do. Yeah. Same thing with Miss Sun by Boz. You know, I mean, you've got a few Bozgag songs on there because, you know, topical, but, um, you know, a lot of people don't, don't like that song because it's so like easy listening, you know.
Jude Warne (46:01.497)
Yes.
Jude Warne (46:07.84)
I know, yes, that's an interesting thing to think about. I thought about that a lot too when working on the America book. There's a lot of that out there. And I understand it as well, just seeing America or Basgags and some of their popular 70s works, seeing it just as easy listening and thusly, like a bit boring or like vanilla or not exciting enough. But I think easy, you know, those kinds of easy listening songs have their own appeal anyway, especially when you consider them in conjunction with.
the rest of an artist's career. But Bold as Love is one of my favorite guitar solo, I think, of all time, is in towards the end of that song. I actually wrote a short story once about like, just that part of the solo and how it has all this meaning in it. So that was fun, very nerdy, I guess, but it was fun at the time. And I, in the Boss book, actually, I talk about that song a bit when I'm talking about the...
Chad (46:41.931)
Oh well.
Jude Warne (46:59.716)
Steve Lukather's guitar solo on A Clue, which is from the Down to the Left record, the one right after Silk Degrees. But some of what Luke achieves in that solo, I think has, it's very similar to me to what Hendrix achieves in that, in the Boldest Love solo, that part of it, where it kind of transcends what you would think a guitarist could do within the time allowed, and sometimes kind of, somehow goes across those lines and creates this new magic sort of thing, which I love, I love, you know, guitar.
guitar solos. That's also interesting.
Chad (47:33.806)
I love guitar solos and I love the ones that do the unexpected, you know. And it's funny because again, like I have loved the solo in Lowdown since I was a kid and first heard the song. Never knew who played it. Found out today. Found a video of Louis Shelton on YouTube actually walking through the solo and just saying, you know, here's how I came up with it or whatever. And it just works, you know. And he even said that I think for the solo part that Ba's wanted to change
Jude Warne (47:45.301)
Oh, yes.
Chad (48:03.52)
keys and he said you know it's not really a key that works for guitar but you know I figured it out and I made it work and it's like yeah you did you know that when a guitar solo just fits a piece perfectly and Lukather is amazing at that by the way like there he doesn't play a bad note you know that guy just his guitar parts are airtight I found yeah
Jude Warne (48:12.438)
Right.
Jude Warne (48:19.078)
Yes.
Jude Warne (48:25.624)
It's amazing. And some of them being these first takes like in the Lionel Richie song running with the Knights, I believe that that's the one that's on the record is like the first time he just went through it. And it's one of the most incredible solos ever recorded, I think, just what happens in the moments. And it's a nice meeting of like acumen with this passion that's there too. It's just incredible stuff.
Chad (48:33.163)
Yeah.
Chad (48:50.782)
Yeah. And you know, it speaks to their genius that, you know,
I mean, a lot of times with the Toto crew, you know, they were involved in a lot of the writing and planning and stuff for the records. But other times they were just called in 11th hour and just said, here, figure something out. Kiev, go, you know, right. And they would just come up with these amazing parts. And like you said, they would nail it in one take or two takes and be like, okay, thanks, bye, you know, walk out the door. And, you know, 50 years later, 40 years later, rather, we're still listening to it and being like, wow, how did he come up with that? And it's like, took five minutes.
Jude Warne (49:09.69)
Right.
Chad (49:28.261)
Which just blows my mind. As a wannabe guitar player, as you see behind me, you know, by no means a lead player. I'm strictly rhythm, but you know, people that can sort of spontaneously play lead guitar just I have nothing but admiration.
Jude Warne (49:29.569)
Right, things fired. Me too.
Jude Warne (49:34.122)
Thanks.
Jude Warne (49:44.78)
I totally agree. And when you're talking about studio players from the 70s, a lot of who were happened to be in Toto, but I also love thinking about Jeff Picaro and what an incredible drummer he was and the amount of recordings he's on too that he had so much to say musically within the song and like the Silk Degrees album and how much he contributes to those sonics and just I loved kind of getting to know him a bit more through the speaking with his bandmates for the Boz book.
Chad (49:55.512)
Oh yeah.
Jude Warne (50:14.46)
closer to him and his legacy and I'm just fascinated by his persona. I just find him so attractive in interviews and compelling and really all about the music which is so a perfect quality for a studio player and greater than that to have. So he's always interesting to consider when thinking about Boz or just any the concept of being a studio musician.
Chad (50:38.846)
Yeah, and Jeff from a very young age was such an immense talent. I mean, you know, he was 16, 17 years old, I think playing with Sonny and Cher was that's where he got his start. And then, you know, laddering over to Steely Dan and, you know, putting together Toto and doing all those things. I mean, just unbelievable. And, you know, so sad that, you know, he was gone way too soon. But the other thing that I that I find as I watch interviews and I, you know, sort of read stuff about some of these
Jude Warne (50:46.907)
Yes.
Jude Warne (50:52.197)
Mm-hmm.
Jude Warne (51:02.085)
for now.
Chad (51:08.76)
these people is all of the studio guys in this little sphere that we've been talking about. And America, by the way, Jerry and Dewey, they just seem like really sweet people. I mean, you know, some people will put a best foot forward in an interview and they might not be the nicest person off camera. But it just seems like there was just this mutual love and respect, you know, among that group. And
You know, they're definitely egos, I'm sure, but it just seems like they just, you know, were just really great guys. I mean, you know, especially Precaro and Lukather. Like, they're just seem like they're very amicable. I don't know.
Jude Warne (51:45.464)
It's true, and it is not surprising, like you said, but it's exciting to realize that your heroes are these people you hear about from history, and then you get to meet them, and they are these nice guys. Part of, I kind of joke about that a bit with the America book, about how they're such nice guys, but literally everyone I interviewed for that book said that about Chari and Dewey unprovoked. It was just, I started to laugh about it after a while, like, wow, this is gonna, did you set this up ahead of time? Every single person is saying that, but of course they...
And I can attest to that as well, knowing that they're such nice guys. And the same can be said for the Toto guys who I interviewed. They were so giving and allowing with their just, they had this general helpful energy knowing that I was working on the book and bringing the reminiscence to it, which was so great for me as a writer. But I really felt that energy too, and I imagine Jeff was the same similar way. And I got to speak with Steve Percaro, his brother.
a bunch too, which has been great. And he has that very similar vibe of these great stories from being on the road with Boz and then Toto and just having that helpful, open energy and still being very musical, working on new music even to this day, which is such a testament to the career that they committed to at such a young age, but that it's still, it's this eternal kind of thing, which I like thinking about.
Chad (53:07.75)
Yeah, I feel like they all have this unbridled love for music and that's why they still do it like they can't not do it right? And what you're doing Jude and you know other authors too is that this whole idea of getting it on paper and Recording this for posterity. It's so awesome because you know music fans like me I'll read anything about any band that I like I mean, you know, I can't tell you how many you can see the book Oh, you know if you can see the bookshelf behind me, you won't be able to see it in the finished video But I think you can right now I mean I've read like so many auto
Jude Warne (53:12.156)
Huh. Great.
Jude Warne (53:21.532)
Mm-hmm.
Jude Warne (53:28.622)
I'm sorry.
Chad (53:37.584)
biographies and biographies of you know musicians that I love and I just eat that kind of stuff up And I have an 18 year old daughter. I'm slowly winning her over to the dark side of my music She doesn't she doesn't need help. She's got amazing taste and you know, she's turned me onto a lot of stuff actually to be fair, but Just the fact that I can hand some of this knowledge down to her and you know, she loves learning about things too. So maybe this will be a you know
Jude Warne (53:50.014)
Well done.
Chad (54:07.584)
share, you know, I can just say, hey, you know, listen to this band, you like them, okay, here, read the book about them, you know, and understand why the music is the way that it is or how it became, you know, how it came to be recorded. And, you know, I want her to understand all the nuances of everything. And I think she'll get there. So
Jude Warne (54:24.496)
That's really great and that's what my parents did with me too. It's important that it's passed down in the writing, as you say, in these books documenting the eras and stuff and interviews, but also just with parents doing it to their kids. And I hope to do that, you know, when I have a kid someday to just carry it forward. And it's funny, the more time that goes by, I think, you know, it's kind of known perhaps, but I think more about how especially music that came out in the 60s, 70s, 80s, it really does seem like this finite.
time now that's not really gonna come again. I mean, new wonderful musical moments will come hopefully, and new groups of artists and stuff, but those classic rock records are really of a certain time and that speaks to just how great and how the high quality that they were a lot too, which during the 60s I don't think it was such a the countercultural movement anyway was so youth based and perhaps some people might have viewed it as
or who were on the outside of it, especially as this temporal kind of thing that wasn't going to last. But I love seeing how these records from that time really have lasted and do last, and are these classic things now, not just trendy works.
Chad (55:36.158)
Yeah, so many of those records stand up. I mean, some don't, some are of their time, and I think some are never going to gain a modern audience, but there are so many bands that are still being listened to today, and there's a reason for that. So yeah. Well, Jude, what's next? What's coming down the pike for you in terms of writing and projects?
Jude Warne (55:38.915)
Mm-hmm.
Jude Warne (55:58.724)
Well, I am working on a couple of different projects in development right now. I am working on some writing about Donald Fagen's work, just his solo career that I'm fascinated by. Nightfly is another album favorite of mine, so I've been writing a bit about that and just the Steely Dan phenomenon and developing different ideas I have about themes in their music. Mostly more of Donald's solo stuff.
Chad (56:15.426)
Oh yeah.
Jude Warne (56:28.492)
I'm fascinated by him as a character and a musician, and I kind of see him as this reluctant romantic, which I just find so appealing. It is kind of like the character he paints in the Nightfly title track, Lester, you know? I think that's a lot of that is so much of him. And in the way that album in particular is like the best look we get into autobiographical work because generally stealing down stuff is so opaque and removed and almost never
too personal, you know, it's always about these characters and it's great, but I like kind of thinking about Donald's character and how that comes out in that album in particular, the Nightfly so, I’m working on some stuff for that.
Chad (57:11.79)
That's super exciting. I can't wait to see that if it comes to fruition. So you'll have to keep me posted.
Jude Warne (57:16.128)
I will, thank you.
Chad (57:18.398)
Absolutely. So parting question for you. And I've been asking this of every guest and it's a fun one, I think. So, you know, I don't really know you that well, obviously at all. But if you had to tell me one track or one song that you love that I wouldn't expect just, you know, given the playlist that you sent me and given you know, what I know about your musical taste, what's a left field song that you love that I would never guess?
Jude Warne (57:47.768)
Um, that's a bit of a tough question. I do. So I do have interest in different genres, like a lot of music fans do. I'm trying to think. I do love the London Calling album by the, by the Clash, which sometimes is surprising to people given if they just know like my writing about Boz and America and more light seventies fare, but I'm a pretty big punk fan in that.
Chad (57:52.305)
Yep.
Jude Warne (58:16.196)
those years, like the Clash stuff, mainly, I gotta say. I just love Joe Strummer's character and his persona and how that came out in the music and a lot of the guitar work on those records and just what they contributed culturally and energetically speaking to is so cool and interesting and unique. But that can be that, I guess.
Chad (58:37.442)
favorite track on London Calling.
Jude Warne (58:39.888)
Ah, I mean I like the title track. I think the Spanish Bombs on that album, I think it is. So I love that song. I haven't listened to it in a while, but I generally love most of the songs on that record. And just the cover too alone is so inspired by the Elvis Presley album, but it's just a great cover shot.
Chad (58:45.462)
Me too.
Chad (59:04.334)
what's iconic. Yeah, for sure. Great, good answer. So thank you very much for being here, Jude. Anything else you wanted to cover or plug before we go?
Jude Warne (59:16.721)
Just a reminder that the Boz book is called Slow Dance for the Music of Boz Scaggs and it's coming out early next year by Chicago Review Press so I hope to be able to share more details on that soon but I'm excited for that release to happen.
Chad (59:35.778)
Well, we'll have to have you back on the podcast if that is released and we can talk about it. Great. Excellent. Well, thanks again. Really appreciate you being here. Absolutely. And we'll hope to see you again. All right. Take care.
Jude Warne (59:40.016)
Sure, I'd love to, that sounds fun.
Jude Warne (59:45.72)
Thanks for having me.
Jude Warne (59:49.797)
Likewise.
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