Episode 14 transcript

Note: this transcript is AI-generated, and as such, it may contain spelling or grammatical errors.

Chad (00:03.458)
Greetings and welcome back to the Aural Mess podcast. My guest this week is Jeff Schultz. Hey, Jeff.

Jeff (00:09.745)
Hey, how you doing, Chad?

Chad (00:11.646)
I'm good. I'm glad you could join me tonight. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Jeff (00:17.133)
Um, okay, so I am a musician. Obviously I love music. Uh, since I'm glad you do this, it's great to just, you know, listen to the podcast and, you know, I'll just listen to people talk about music and talk about music with people is really not much better. So I'm happy to do this. Uh, but I play in a couple of bands. I play in a, I play bass in a funk disco psychedelic type band called Daydreams, which I'm wearing this shirt. Um,

Chad (00:43.904)
Oh wow.

Jeff (00:47.289)
And then I play guitar in a Grateful Dead cover band called Lilac Rain, which I actually have a shirt of here as well. I came prepared to promote. Uh, yeah. Um, yeah. Um, one of our drummer's girlfriends was just like bored and made it, so we lucked out. Yeah. Usually have to pay for that.

Chad (00:57.566)
Nice little show and tell. Oh cool, love that logo.

Chad (01:09.174)
Well, lucky you. Yeah, totally. So, oh, I know. Yeah, and it's not cheap. Oh, that's great. So, bass in a disco funk R&B band, what's that like? What kind of music, like what kind of materials are you guys doing? Is it originals or?

Jeff (01:26.897)
So it is about half original, half covers. We kind of cover a broad spectrum. We play some of the classics. We play September. We play Dove's Cry, the Prince tune. We play Get Down On It, stuff like that. We also play new stuff like Redbone and songs in more of that vein. There's Tied Up Right Now by The Parcels is one we play that. I think that's a super cool tune. That's a workout. I like doing that one.

Actually, I've only been playing bass since about... I did a couple gigs, which I'm sure we'll get into later, because it involves Steely Damn, which I'm sure we're gonna talk a good chunk about. But I actually didn't start full-time really playing and owning an instrument until about January of 2022. So I've been a guitar player my whole life. I went to college for jazz guitar.

Chad (02:06.442)
Oh yeah, we'll go there.

Chad (02:17.845)
Oh wow.

Jeff (02:25.253)
which I guess may not be the best idea to go to college for, but a ton of fun. I learned a lot and it's a fantastic instrument. But from that my buddy was like, hey you want to play bass in this band? And I wasn't really doing much of the time, so I was like, I have a bass line around. I might as well go and try out. And then you know I prepared and they were like, wow you're like the first person to actually prepare. And I'm like...

Yeah, I mean, you sent me the songs to learn and I learned them, which apparently isn't something a lot of people did, for whatever reason. Yeah, I just think sometimes it's like, people think, especially being a bass player, sometimes people think, ah, they're on a ton of those, I can just get the gig. But thankfully I came prepared and then I was actually kicked out of that band because

Chad (03:00.97)
Wow, that's surprising. Yeah.

Chad (03:13.665)
Right.

Jeff (03:22.277)
I don't know, they said I wasn't a good fit, which I guess is kinda true. We were kind of off in somewhat different directions moving on, but then I joined this funk disco band. I was actually in both at the same time for a few months, and that's really rewarding and fun, because I mean, playing bass, like playing funk disco bass, you can't really beat it as a bass player. It's pretty much at the peak.

Chad (03:46.934)
No, no.

Chad (03:50.846)
It is the peak and I'm a little jealous because you know you see the bass behind me and I play a little bit of bass. The band cover band that I used to be in years ago I would trade off with a bass player for like three or four songs. And you know at the time I kind of played bass like a guitar player but you know it was cover so it was just I learned the part and. You know add little flourishes here and there, but for my own enjoyment. You know the last few years when I've been just banging on the guitar on the bass like I tend to look for.

Jeff (03:53.153)
Yeah.

Jeff (04:24.39)
Yeah.

Chad (04:26.342)
I've tried to learn some of the bassline for Josie by Steely Dan. That was a miserable failure.

Jeff (04:32.53)
It's a tough, I used to play that in the other band I was in. It's a monster. I mean, we would do that at home at last and Kid Charlamagne was actually the first gig I played whenever I had no knowledge of bass. I'm like, I can play the loops, I can, so yeah. The, the.

Chad (04:48.47)
Sometimes that's it, you know, as long as you could just stay in the pocket and play the root notes, you're golden, at least for songs you don't know, you know?

Jeff (04:54.609)
Yeah, those tunes are beasts. I mean...

Chad (04:58.339)
Yeah.

Jeff (05:00.221)
Tough.

Chad (05:01.11)
Do you guys do any average white band? That was the other thing that I was obsessed with for a while was like pick up the pieces and cut the cake and what's the other song they do? Schoolboy Crush, like easy bass lines when you hear them but then when you try to play them, there's so much going on that you don't realize and it's like, what the hell?

Jeff (05:17.361)
Yeah, I would like to. We're kind of, we're starting to pick back up learning more covers again and I think a lot of the guys, obviously we're all younger, you know I'm 27, I'm the second youngest one in the band so we're all, I think the oldest one is like 30, 32 within that age. So it's like, we're trying to play more modern stuff, which I, despite being 27, I kind of sheltered myself outside of that.

Oddly enough, they're like, let's do this, let's do this. And I'm like, I don't know any of that. But so I think they're trying to skew younger because we have fans come up and you play, you should play Late Night Talking by Hailey Stiles. And I'm like, okay, which I listened to it and I was learning it as a song itself. It's not really my thing, but playing bass on it is a ton of fun because it's funky and it's super open. They're long corded spaces, so you can just do whatever you want. So it's what I'm super excited for, but.

Chad (05:57.678)
Hahaha

Chad (06:11.198)
Right. Yeah.

Jeff (06:14.117)
Unfortunately no average white band. I would like to play some more stuff. One I would like to do is Shadowdancing by Andy Gibb. I love that tune. That's one of my all-time favorites, but I think they're trying to be like, hey, let's do some stuff that's been on the radio in the past 40 years. And I'm trying to be like, let's do something else.

Chad (06:21.391)
Oh yeah.

Chad (06:31.213)
Hahaha

Chad (06:34.718)
Yeah, it's tough to find stuff that you want to play and that you enjoy playing, but also sort of resonates with the audience. My band went through that. I mean, we're talking, this was the mid nineties. I'm a lot older than you. Um, but I was basically in a band that was doing a lot of, um.

Jeff (06:45.789)
Yeah.

Chad (06:49.746)
alternative and classic rock and you know that kind of stuff but sort of heavier so like Alice and Chains and you know Stone Temple Pilots and Marvelous Three when they were popular and you know I'm trying to think of some of the classic rock stuff we did.

Jeff (06:51.828)
Yeah.

Jeff (06:55.717)
Oh, okay.

Chad (07:06.21)
Yeah, escapes me right now. But point is like that goes so far. I mean, it was great to rehearse and play together in my drummer's basement, which is where we would rehearse every week. But then it's hard to get gigs with that stuff because people wanna dance, right? And you really can't dance to Stone Temple Pilots. I mean, you can, but people don't. So.

Jeff (07:22.077)
Yeah. Kind of shuffle, maybe.

Chad (07:27.286)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, do the whole, you know, beer in the hand in the corner kind of shuffle. But so we were pretty much like, okay, you know, it's time to reinvent ourselves. It's time to think up, you know,

Jeff (07:31.508)
Yeah.

Chad (07:39.25)
new songs to learn to play that people want to hear. So we decided to keep it classic. You know, we picked up some current stuff, but we did mostly started going back to like disco and funk and eighties, you know, that kind of thing. And at the time we didn't have a full-time keyboard player. So I was playing very badly, you know, single note stuff on my right hand on an oversized Casio, you know, just to fill in some of the parts that we didn't have. But then this whole new world opened up because we were like, okay,

Jeff (08:00.776)
hahahaha yeah

Chad (08:09.364)
we're missing horns, we're missing keys, we're missing a lot of percussion, you know, and we're not about to go, you know, double the size of the band and, you know, we can't really do that anyway. So I had the genius idea of going out and buying a synthesizer. So at the time it was probably a little dated then, but I got a really good deal on it. I think I bought it used off of some dude and it was a Korg X2. So it was fully programmable with MIDI and it used floppy disks, if you

Jeff (08:23.595)
Oh, okay, yeah.

Chad (08:39.064)
that. So I used to go grab MIDI tracks off the internet, spend hours tweaking them and you know

changing up some of the arrangements and some of the sequencing and stuff, but mainly just picking out patches to play to make it sound like the record. And then we'd get a backing track. Basically, I take out all the parts that we had in the band, you know, obviously, and we just leave in like, you know, horns and a click track and keys and stuff like that. So my drummer, luckily, was really solid. He had like this meter that you wouldn't believe like set your watch by him kind of guy like that kind of drummer. And he would play to the click and it worked,

So like here we are now we could do like KC and the sunshine band and we did play that funky music And we did I will survive by Gloria Gaynor like, you know, we had a female singer So we did all this fun stuff and it was just like for the most part for me I would just go push the button And then run back up to the mic and sing backup vocals and I didn't have to do anything it was great, you know so Yeah, totally It was fun

Jeff (09:30.705)
Yeah. Like, I get paid to do this? Just... Yeah. No, that's a ton of fun. Yeah. Our band is definitely unique. It's a funk band because we are two guitars, bass, drums, and singers. So we definitely are missing that. Our lead guitar player is definitely one of those kind of pedal-obsessed guys, which I think...

every guitar player goes through that phase, I've gone through that phase, I've kind of... as a player I've started to be like, you know what, I just kind of want distortion and then maybe some phaser and delay for once in a while, but for the most part I've kind of stripped back, because I'm like, I don't really need... obviously wah, every guitar player needs wah, but... like, so... I stripped back, but he's definitely one of those pedal guys, you know, he has like the synth pedal, which he actually kind of gets in debates about, because like...

Chad (09:59.99)
Yes.

Chad (10:16.948)
Oh yeah.

Jeff (10:28.009)
so loud it drowns me out so he's like yeah maybe I need to get something else because it's tough but it's like I can't hear the bass player can you have the band because the synth pedal is so loud but he's like looking for a new one which is good but he's a he's a total gear guy which is really great because that gives us these options that I don't think would have existed 20 years ago so we can still be a two guitar band and play this kind of music

Chad (10:30.284)
Oh

Jeff (10:57.233)
while still having some sounds relatively in that kind of wheelhouse.

Chad (11:03.918)
Sure. So what about the other band that you play guitar in? Tell me a bit about that one.

Jeff (11:09.581)
So it's a Grateful Dead cover band. One of the... the drummer, because the Dead band has two drummers of course, but obviously the disco band only has one. So I have like one of the drummers, it's the one drummer. But he has buddies that he grew up with and they all like the Dead. And I grew up on the Dead. You know, one of like the two seminal bands in my life. The other one being Phish growing up.

Chad (11:18.062)
Of course.

Jeff (11:38.457)
I wouldn't say jam band household because my mom and my brother don't like it, but my dad likes it. He's not like a hippie who's traveling around the world to go see him. He'll go when it's around and we go together. That was like a really seminal band. That's how I learned to read. My parents would be like, where's Max and Kelly Blues on the tape? And I go find it. And that's like learning to read. By reading these Grateful Dead songs, I've always been obsessed. So it was cool being in a...

Chad (12:03.453)
Oh, cool.

Jeff (12:07.721)
funk band with a guy who knows another drummer and keyboard player who also really liked the dad. So it was just kind of like, you just want to come over and jam and then we got another guitar player, got a bass player and that's about it. And it's a ton of fun. It can be daunting, you know, because you're playing in such a big shadow. I'm the Jerry guy. So you're playing in that shadow that's so enormous, you know.

Chad (12:32.462)
There we go.

Jeff (12:35.773)
covers everybody who's ever tried to play it. I could say me and John Mayer have something in common because we're both just trying to climb that impossible mountain, you know? But it's a ton of fun and it's really great because there's so many people that just wanna come out and dance to it. Because it's just such a cultural thing. Like if you really like it, it's like, it's a part of you. And so it's great to just have people come out and

Chad (12:46.37)
Yeah.

Jeff (13:05.277)
We're definitely the youngest dead band by quite a few years. Ironically, the one band I'm the second youngest and this band I'm the second oldest. So, yeah. So, I mean, you know, we have like a 22, 23 year old bass player and stuff, so skews younger. So, I always think we're like the most energetic in the area, because we have a lot more power. Like, there's a ton of them. Actually, ironically, in college I had to take classical guitar lessons and

Chad (13:14.515)
Oh wow.

Jeff (13:34.717)
that guy was a deadhead who has his own dead cover band too. So, which is so weird that like, you go to college and you have to learn classical guitar, it's like, oh yeah, I love the dead. I play the music all the time. And then he starts a band and now I'm in a band. So, which you're kind of competing in some weird way, but it's a lot of fun, it's rewarding and the music is obviously special and there's always magic in that music in some ways.

not to get too hippie, you know, or whatever, but it's definitely, it's definitely a very, like, magical type of music. And whenever you get into that groove, like, especially improvisation, it's like, once you got six guys locked in on it, there's really pretty much nothing better. And coming from that jazz background as well, being like, a guy, you know, playing with saxophone players and stuff, whenever, like, you really get into that with them, you're trading and stuff, it's like, there's really nothing else quite like it.

Chad (14:06.572)
Hahaha

Chad (14:34.398)
Yeah, oh, I hear that the first band that I was in, we didn't do any dead, but we would just sometimes just, you know, rehearse songs that we wanted to play out or whatever. But other times we would just play a song and we would just go into this extended middle section and just go off on a tangent for like 20 minutes, you know, just to kind of stretch out and you know, get out of the rut. And it was it was fun. That was the thing that was my favorite part of that band.

Jeff (14:50.516)
Yeah.

Chad (14:58.77)
Yeah, so I'm not a huge Grateful Dad fan. I do know some of their songs. Fish is something that is a band that I need to get into because so many people that I know love them.

Jeff (15:01.04)
Okay.

Jeff (15:07.399)
Yeah.

Chad (15:11.134)
you know, and so many people that I know, and I just had this conversation with a couple other guests actually on the podcast, but like, I'm finding that so many Steely Dan heads are really into Fish and the Dead. To me, yes, it makes sense on some level, right? Because just it's that same era, it's that same sort of, you know, complex music, and it takes you places where maybe other bands don't. But at the same time, I'm kind of like Steely Dan is nowhere near a jam band. So like, how are they even in the same?

I mean, not to say that you can't like different things because I listen to pretty much anything, you know But it's just funny that those Pacific bands I think kind of cross over a lot with people. So where's your Steely Dan World come into all this

Jeff (15:48.799)
Yeah.

Jeff (15:53.789)
So Steely Dan is a band that, like I said, I was in. I was just... Well, I guess the first one I remember, other than hearing Lil in the years and do it again on the radio for years and stuff, but the first one that really caught me was Kid Charlemagne. But like I said, I was playing bass for, like, and it was... My drummer, one of my drummer friends, the guy who was playing this trio thing, it was his bass that his buddy left.

When he went to California the action was about like this high And like I tried to like learn how to play Kid Charlamagne and I'm just like killing myself I never played bass on these huge strings like digging on this super tough tune so it took me a little bit to finally be like, okay I'm gonna actually go on my way to listen to him because I had to learn like three hours of music So it was like I'm just listening to these three hours of music to get prepared for these the show or two

Chad (16:25.473)
Oh.

Jeff (16:49.469)
But then it was, that was in 2020. They were like parties, maybe they shouldn't have been played, but it was like, well, you need to work and whatever. And we were all, we were so far away from everything else that it was kind of like, you know, no spreading or anything. But then it was about November or December, I was finally like, okay, I'm just gonna listen to this. And I believe the first album was The Royal Scam that I listened to. And it was just like,

Chad (17:17.265)
Good starting point.

Jeff (17:18.701)
Yeah, it was like blew me away especially being like a guitar player. That's like to me. That's the guitar album for them like And it's Larry Carlton is just all over the place and he's just unbelievable and It blew me away and then a day or two after I think I Two days later because I think I just only listened to that album for like two days And then I put on Asia and that's whenever it was it was done Like I was already like these are one of my favorite bands of all time only heard two albums, but it's just like

Chad (17:24.97)
It is. Yeah.

Chad (17:46.766)
Hahaha.

Jeff (17:48.625)
That album, which is now my favorite album of all time, and I don't know if it can ever be topped, it's just... I think that's the perfect album from front to back, just in every possible way. I mean, there are some other contenders, a couple of them being from Steely Dan's catalog as well, but like, it's almost indescribable how like perfect it is. Everything, like just being able to hear every instrument so perfectly.

I'm not a huge audiophile, but there is that aspect of, like, I can listen to Rick Mariotta. Lift is his hi-hat a quarter of an inch. And it adds so much to a groove that you can't hear from anything else. And just getting into them, it feels like I never stop getting into them. Every once in a while I won't listen to them for a month or so. But then you'll just find one song that you know and you like, but...

Chad (18:27.311)
Yeah.

Jeff (18:46.929)
You just, you're like, oh, whoa, this blew my mind all over again. Yeah. And like one, one that really blew me away was Night by Night. That song has to be one of the most underrated tunes in the whole discography. Um, that was whenever I saw him, I knew it, but I didn't really know it. I got to see him a couple of years ago in Syracuse, um, which was a killer show, obviously, but, um, getting to see John Harrington, one of, who is

Chad (18:49.706)
Yeah, totally. That happens to me all the time. With Steely Dan.

Chad (18:58.348)
Yes.

Chad (19:02.625)
Agreed.

Chad (19:16.366)
My god. Yeah, he's just amazing.

Jeff (19:16.581)
one of my favorite plays of all time.

He's unbelievable. But they opened that show with Night by Night, and I was like, what is this? Like, I've heard it. I own the record. But like, just hearing and play it, and I think that was like my most listened to song for like the rest of the year. That, and just throughout the whole catalog, even things like Kings, which is a song I never hear any discourse about, I think that's such a great tune. It's just like, you can go back, not back, but go over and over and over, just so many songs.

Chad (19:27.169)
hahahaha

Jeff (19:52.077)
The one song that I think by them that I definitely want to talk about is, well I guess I'll ask you a question first, which is what do you think the most seminal Steely Dan song is? If you had to pick one, what would you go with? I know, it's a tough question.

Chad (20:03.179)
Wow.

Chad (20:06.654)
Um, if I had to pick one, I gotta go Deacon Blues. I feel like it's, it encapsulates everything about the band. It's, it's got the, the lyrics are just unreal. The music, um, the, the jazz sensibility in that tune, the saxophone, like it's, it's just the perfect package, right? It sort of talks to everything that, that they were trying to do, I think, as a band, in my opinion.

Jeff (20:25.032)
Yeah.

Jeff (20:28.597)
Yeah. And like that is definitely the common answer because it might be the right answer. You know, that is such a... Yeah. The one I have to say is I have to say it's Babylon Sisters. For me, everything... it almost feels like every single thing from every aspect of the like six albums in eight years they were a band was building up to like that one song.

Chad (20:39.566)
This is the right answer.

Chad (20:44.543)
Yeah, okay.

Jeff (20:57.617)
It just feels like a microcosm. It's the best sounding song ever, so it has that production aspect. Because I don't think you can ever hear a single song sound better than the 274 mixes. And then... And then Donald ... Yeah, and then Donald heard the bass note, and he's like, Actually, we need to go back and change this. Flew back to California. Yeah, just 55 for the fade out. I could just start a rumor and just say they were like... Six takes only on the...

Chad (21:10.142)
That was just a fade out.

Jeff (21:26.597)
trumpet in the second verse and you would just believe me. Like, because it's just that, it's just that perfect. And from a jazz sensibility, it just, in just the songwriting, it just feels like every song they wrote kind of built to that one. I know like, definitely Deacon Blues is the, like, the classic, like, this is like almost autobiographical. But I think from a songwriting standpoint, I feel like nothing kind of

Chad (21:29.302)
Hahaha

Jeff (21:56.041)
builds like Babylon Sisters. Personally.

Chad (21:59.166)
Yeah, no, I agree. I can totally see that. And any song that starts out with just, you know, a couple of drum beats from Bernard Purdy, like you can't go wrong, like it just gets better from there.

Jeff (22:08.658)
Yeah, I mean, what a master. I mean, getting him on those albums is so critical. He just makes you want to dance as a drummer. You can't do anything better than that. I mean, other than maybe Keith Carlock, but he's kind of like... Maybe not an evolution, but I believe we had a discourse on Twitter where we were talking about John Harrington and Keith Carlock are kind of like the...

Chad (22:12.427)
Yeah.

Chad (22:31.903)
Yes, we did.

Jeff (22:35.765)
the kind of ending, kind of final boss, if you will, of all the Steely Dan musicians. It's just, everything they do is exactly what that band needs.

Chad (22:42.423)
Ha ha!

Chad (22:49.047)
Yeah.

They are both unparalleled players and you have to respect them even more because if you listen to them out of context, like John Harrington solo stuff and things he's done with other musicians, that's not Steely Dan is just phenomenal. He's one of my favorite players of all time too. Same thing with Keith Karloch. That guy is just superhuman. That's the word I used to describe him. He's a beast, right? But when you think about the fact that they definitely bring their own flavor.

Jeff (23:06.694)
Yeah, same here.

Jeff (23:14.868)
Yeah.

Chad (23:20.592)
to the band and the Steely Dan catalog, but they both remain pretty faithful to some of the original parts that were laid down on the records, right? Because they just do. And John Harrington has to be like eight different guitar players every night. And not only from a stylistic standpoint, but if you really pay attention, and here's where that pedal obsession comes in, he sounds like Larry Carlton, right?

Jeff (23:30.292)
Yeah.

Jeff (23:45.985)
Yeah, he does

Chad (23:50.092)
Randall, he sounds like Jay Graydon, like his tone is 99% what it was on the records. And that's not on, that's not accidental, right? That's totally on purpose. Um, but he throws enough of himself into it that it's just not like he's just playing the same shit, right? And the same thing with, um, with Keith Carlock is there are certain fills and certain, I think, beats and patterns that, that he stays faithful to, but he throws in so much of his own flavor and his meter and his

Jeff (23:57.885)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Chad (24:19.992)
just timing and his feel I mean he's like, wow. Good stuff about those guys all night.

Jeff (24:26.953)
I know, I could too. There's definitely something to Steely Dan musicians that no other musician really has. To get to that point, Freddie Washington, the bass player, he can just lay down a groove like I've never heard before. The thing that really gets me is just how complex the music is.

Chad (24:42.675)
Oh yeah. Top notch.

Chad (24:53.911)
Yeah.

Jeff (24:56.777)
with Gaucho the tune on guitar and I found this 11 chord changes in the first two lines. 11 chord changes in two lines. I don't know how you groove on that. I don't know how you're able to first make it sound good and then make like an 11-piece band sound good with it. It's not like two or three people. It's there's a full band there and it's just mind-blowing. I mean

Chad (25:02.774)
Ha ha

Chad (25:07.191)
Ha ha!

Jeff (25:24.485)
I definitely think the Steely Dam Band is at its best right now. Like, if you've never seen them, that's like a band. If you're a fan, it's like a must see. I think each musician they've gotten, because I think most of them have been there now for at least 10 years. I think they've kind of like found their guys. Yeah. And, you know, I know I don't really, I listen to a good chunk of live shows, obviously being a fish in dead head, I do like live music a lot. So.

Chad (25:40.67)
Yeah, this current version. Yep. Right.

Jeff (25:53.193)
I listen to it, I don't really find myself listening to anything before Harrington joined. I feel like they had a lot of shred guys. And like, the good players, but I don't want to listen to somebody's sweet pick over Deacon Blues. It sounds bad. You know? Like...

Chad (25:57.966)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Chad (26:05.758)
Right. Who is it? Wayne Krantz? I think that he was right. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah.

Jeff (26:12.361)
I think so, yeah. I know there was a guy from UFO, that might be him. One of the guys from UFO, I think. And I know one of them went on, I think he was on Sunken Condos. The guy who played on Jack of Speed, which that's like one of the main ones I listened to from that period, because it's the different version. Which is actually one of my favorite Dan tunes as well. It's one of the ones that really got me into them. Especially the version from 2000 that-

Chad (26:24.331)
Yes.

Jeff (26:40.633)
Actually that kind of brings me to a controversial Steely Dan point I have, which is that as an album, I feel like 2 Against Nature is probably the worst sounding Steely Dan album. I think from a songwriting standpoint, excellent as always, but I think the mix is just not there. Going back and listening to those live tracks from 2000, 2003 when they were touring that album...

Chad (26:54.05)
I agree.

Jeff (27:09.409)
It's top notch and those are definitely songs to go out of your way to listen to.

Chad (27:14.198)
That's an interesting point. And I just made that point. So I am, you know, I'm not a reunion album hater by any stretch, but two against danger is my least favorite and their catalog, right? I've said it, I'll say it again. I'm actually, I just had a little argument with somebody on Instagram today about it because we're talking about a couple songs and I'm like, I don't really like that album. They're like, you don't what? Like people's leads, he was ready to jump through Instagram and punch me.

Jeff (27:24.061)
Yeah.

Jeff (27:39.246)
hahahaha

Jeff (27:43.653)
Yeah.

Chad (27:45.374)
But it's funny because...

That album, there's something about it I don't like. The songwriting is great, the playing is great, and I think you might have nailed it, where I think it's just the mix and I think it's the recording. It's very of its time, it's very slick, and not to say that Asia and Gaucho weren't slick, but they're slick in a different way. It just sounds too manufactured to me, and it ruins the listening experience. And again, the songs are great, and what I've realized is the last three, four years, I've been, like you said, I've been listening to a lot of the live.

Jeff (28:00.615)
Yeah.

Jeff (28:06.117)
Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

Chad (28:19.7)
shows on YouTube and you know watching a lot of that stuff and those songs are a thousand times better live to me than they are on the album. Everything Must Go different story I like the album you know it's not one of my top five out of the catalog but it's definitely you know not my worst it's probably my second least favorite I guess now that I'm saying it out loud again but you know those I think they got a little bit more

Jeff (28:27.442)
Yeah.

Jeff (28:33.373)
Yeah.

Jeff (28:40.749)
Yeah.

Chad (28:47.018)
to how they used to sound if that makes any sense, you know, with that album, not as overproduced. I felt like Two Against Nature was just overproduced and it killed it for me. But hearing those songs live in a different context, it lets them breathe and it just gave them a whole new life for me. So I've been slowly getting back into those tracks again.

Jeff (28:49.321)
Yeah.

Jeff (28:55.61)
It is.

Jeff (29:05.833)
And I also think like one thing I think of is I think the band on that outlet, the band, there's probably a million players on it, but the people who played on it, I feel like they just didn't give enough power in the original. You know, they just kind of like, one thing I think of is Jack of Speed and like they're doing it and the guy's playing like rim shots. I'm like, you need to hit the snare man. You need to give that umph and something like that. It's definitely like a good album.

Chad (29:29.287)
Right.

Jeff (29:34.409)
happy it won the Grammy and stuff and they definitely deserved it after all they've done I know that's the big controversy is that you know should have been Radiohead or Eminem it should have been Steely Dan cuz probably should have given it to them cuz they didn't win Vrasia but you know but it just doesn't have that power I definitely agree Everything Must Go I think is a better album I don't think the songs are better than they are on 2 against nature

Chad (29:48.918)
Yeah, oh yeah.

Jeff (30:04.581)
I think personally my least favorite might be Pretzelogic. It's just a good album, I feel like there's too much filler. I feel like the songs that are good are some of the best in their catalog. Ricky Don't Lose That Number, Night by Night, Pretzelogic, those three specifically I think are some of the best tunes they've ever had. But I do think something like Berry Town, like With the Gone or Charlie Freak, I'm kind of like...

Chad (30:07.904)
Huh, okay.

Jeff (30:32.177)
I mean, I guess With a Gun is pretty good. Charlie Freak I don't really care for. Bury Town is okay, but you know, it just for me, I listen to it and it's... It just doesn't have enough of that Steely Dan flair for me, you know? Like we're kind of in between... It almost is like... I know Katie Lied is often looked at as a transitional album, but I almost feel like Pretzel Logic was then transitioning out of a band.

And then Katie Lied is them figuring it out. So it almost feels like there's a two album kind of transition period. And I definitely think Katie Lied is a better album than Pretzelogic personally. I think that's a great album. But you know, the first two, A Great Countdown to Ecstasy is definitely the best of that band. Band Steely Dan, I think. You know, I mean, my old school and Bodhi Safa alone, I think clearly pretty much anything from those.

Chad (31:07.377)
Yeah.

Chad (31:11.458)
Yeah, I agree.

Jeff (31:30.005)
through the albums but it's kind of you know I feel like Petsologic just doesn't have that kind of flair like they would already had and would have had although the live recordings from that time from 74 are unbelievable like I love going through and listening to Michael McDonald in the band obviously he's gonna make everything better he tends to make everything around him better but yeah

Chad (31:58.154)
Yeah, that he does. Are you gonna look at his or read his autobiography or his memoir when it comes out at the end of the month? He does. Yeah, he does. It's coming out, I think on the 21st. So I'm gonna pick up the, I'm hoping they do a digital version right away. If not, maybe I'll just order the hardback. But I'm really excited because, you know, apparently there's a lot of stories about his time with Steely Dan. So I think that'll be really fascinating to read. Like, you know.

Jeff (32:00.703)
but...

Jeff (32:04.621)
I didn't know he had one coming out, but I think I might now. Thank you for letting me know.

Jeff (32:12.091)
Oh, okay.

Jeff (32:25.309)
Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah. What they should do is an audio book with him talking it. If they could do that, I think it'd be the best seller. But, yeah, I mean, definitely. Great stuff that he helped to contribute because he added a lot to that band. Also, of course, later on the Dewey brothers and his solo work. Just fantastic musician. Also writing.

Chad (32:34.239)
Yeah, for sure.

Jeff (32:52.765)
The only Van Halen tune I really like, I found out that he... I'll wait. I didn't know that. There's something about this song that I like a lot more. I like Van Halen to some extent. The good, you know, Unchained is a classic tune and stuff. That song always just did it for me so much more. Why is that? Now I find out Michael McDonald helped. I'm like, well, that's the missing piece. He should have just helped write all this stuff.

Chad (32:56.426)
I'll wait.

Chad (33:08.65)
Yeah.

Chad (33:22.634)
Oh, totally. I mean, I guess there was the whole Ted Templeman connection. I think that's how that whole thing happened. But yeah, have you ever seen the Yacht Rock web show series?

Jeff (33:23.081)
Yeah.

Jeff (33:27.737)
Oh, okay.

Jeff (33:32.497)
No, I haven't.

Chad (33:33.57)
Oh man, I'm gonna have to link it in the show notes, but I'll shoot it to you on Twitter when we're done. But it's a take a 10 part series that was done a while back. And it's just like ludicrously funny. It's just like basically an unofficial history of how the whole Yacht Rock thing started. And there's a guy that plays Michael McDonald, the Steely Dan shows up and the Eagles and Kenny Loggins. And it's freaking hilarious. I mean, it really is.

Jeff (33:36.213)
Please do.

Jeff (33:44.681)
Okay.

Jeff (33:57.362)
Oh, okay. I'll have to check it out, that sounds like a great time.

Chad (34:02.39)
Oh, it's yeah, I've seen it probably 20 or 30 times. I mean, they're like, you know, 10, 15 minutes a piece, I think. So it's just an hour and a half commitment to watch the whole thing. So it's like watching a movie, but it's so funny. And yeah, I'm not gonna tell you anymore, because you just have to see it for yourself. But yeah, I mean, I and I agree, I think side two of pretzel logic is probably their weakest side. I like with a gun.

Jeff (34:06.482)
Yeah... Okay, yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff (34:17.485)
uh...

Jeff (34:26.196)
Yeah.

Chad (34:28.63)
Parker's band's growing on me the more I listen to it as I get older. Um, I'm still on the fence through with buzz gets a lot of hate. Um, but it's okay. You know, I mean, it's the, it's one of, it's one of two songs that they had strings on, which, you know, is, is reason enough for it to exist, I guess. Um, and then

Jeff (34:30.952)
Yeah.

Jeff (34:37.525)
Yeah. It's not terrible.

Jeff (34:47.601)
I mean the thing is, it's not like a bad Steely Dan song does not necessarily make it a bad song. You know like a bad is like creating on a curve in a weird way because they're all going to be good. You know saying like yeah saying like Baili Town's a bad song well it's still better than probably 70% of songs I've heard. You know so it's the catalog is that just that strong that the song that may shine through in a different band it just looks

Chad (34:53.493)
All right.

Chad (34:58.206)
Hahaha

Yeah, you got to throw something out.

Chad (35:08.988)
Hahaha

Jeff (35:17.449)
Weak compared to something like in Asia or something. You know, or even other songs on that album. It's just how I kind of think about it. I was actually curious, how did you get into Steely Dan? Obviously, big Steely Dan posters, so, I mean.

Chad (35:29.154)
Oh wow, let me, let me. Yeah, let me tell you the short version. So.

First exposure was when I was a kid. We're talking like the mid 70s. I was probably seven, eight years old. And my sister who worked in radio used to get all these promo 45s and albums and things. And they would have duplicate copies from the radio station so they were allowed to take stuff home, or maybe they weren't allowed to, but they all did. So she used to give me all the stuff that they had doubles of or whatever, she and her husband. So.

Jeff (35:56.814)
Yeah.

Chad (36:04.17)
that she had given me a 45 of Josie and you know being that young and being exposed to that music it was like I didn't know what the hell was going on you know I just knew it had a great groove and you know I love the guitars and the

Jeff (36:08.885)
Okay

Jeff (36:19.049)
Yeah.

Chad (36:19.242)
drums and just sang along with it not even knowing what half the lyrics meant you know but my sister was also you know into Steely Dan a little bit and you know I guess going into my tweens and early teen years I got exposed to like all the radio hits that you would imagine right like my old school and Real and in the years oh and I remember when Galcho came out I was eight that's how old I am

Jeff (36:24.195)
Yeah.

Jeff (36:38.666)
Yeah.

Jeff (36:46.453)
Sorry. Ha ha.

Chad (36:48.83)
Hey 19 was on the radio and it was, you know, it was a pretty big hit. So, you know, I'd be sitting there with my little boombox with the tape, you know, waiting for like songs. So I like to come on the radio so I could record them. Right. And I love that song because it was, you know, just such a great song.

Jeff (36:50.962)
Yeah.

Jeff (36:58.428)
Yes.

Chad (37:04.402)
So I remember it being on tapes that I had made off the radio years ago. So, and that sort of spun into young adulthood and then, you know, Steely Dan sort of changes, I think, as your view and your sort of life experience piles on, right? So.

Jeff (37:18.535)
Yeah.

Chad (37:20.894)
I got more into some of the deeper stuff. So, you know, Deacon Blues and the whole Asia album, you know, like you said, kind of blew my mind the first time I listened to it all the way through and like got all the songs under my belt. And then for the longest time, I was really into Katie Lied. Dr. Woo for years was my favorite Steely Dan song.

Jeff (37:26.854)
Yeah.

Jeff (37:34.865)
Yeah.

It's so good.

Chad (37:38.622)
Yeah, and people tend to hate on that album. And I don't know why, because to me, it's some of their strongest songwriting and some of the best, you know, they had the production problem, but it doesn't sound maybe as crystal clear. But you know, to your point, it still sounds better than 80% of the shit that was on the radio from other bands that at that time, right? So

Jeff (37:43.217)
I don't either.

Jeff (37:54.953)
Yeah, oh, I think that's one of the best. I knew a guy who swore up and down that was the best album, and I can hear it. Like, I totally get it. There's like so many great tracks on it. I don't think there's a bad one. Even like a song like Throwback the Little Ones, which I've found people really don't like that song, and I think it's one of the best on the album. It's got such a heavy groove to it. Yeah.

Chad (38:18.678)
Yeah.

So, and then, you know, I guess just they've always stuck with me. I've always, I've always been listening to them on some level, but the last three, four years, um, really, I guess when the pandemic kind of started, I just was spending a lot more time online and on Twitter and started doing all these music challenges. I think that's how you and I sort of started to connect, you know, or maybe through some of the other music Twitter stuff. And, um, uh, I just started to.

Jeff (38:39.283)
Yeah.

Chad (38:48.322)
post more things about Steely Dan as I was discovering more things about Steely Dan. And I got really immersed in the lore and started reading all the books and interacting with good Dan takes and all the big accounts that have been the shepherds of Steely Dan on the internet, right? And digging into the Reddit subreddits for Steely Dan. So I just kind of immersed myself, I guess, and I'm still doing it. So I've got my stupid meme page on Instagram.

Jeff (38:57.341)
Yeah.

Jeff (39:00.605)
Yeah.

Chad (39:18.296)
cross post a lot of those to Twitter. You know, so you've obviously seen them there. But it's fun, you know, and it's great. And it this is not a Steely Dan podcast, my standard disclaimer, but so many people that I've connected with through music in general, tend to gravitate towards Steely Dan, because I think we're all in that same kind of bubble, which is kind of funny. So you know, the conversations here always upturning to it. And it's great, you know, I love the fact that,

Jeff (39:20.209)
Yeah.

Jeff (39:36.537)
Yeah.

Jeff (39:41.511)
Yeah

Chad (39:48.256)
generation and even my daughter's generation she just turned 18 you know they're all discovering Steely Dan and really getting obsessed with him so I feel like it's carrying the torch which makes me happy

Jeff (39:59.637)
It's timeless. The music is truly timeless. They have such a... One of those bands, I think like you were saying, Grateful Dead and Fish and Steely Dan all kind of have a crossover. I think it's because the bands that really just sound like themselves and nobody else is one thing. Everybody always says Fish is like the Dead. If you listen to both bands, Fish sounds absolutely nothing like the Grateful Dead. They jam and they play different stuff every night. That's about the crossover.

Chad (40:02.966)
Yeah.

Chad (40:28.759)
Right.

Jeff (40:29.069)
I mean, they're a very progressive band, they're very jazz focused, and a rock band, The Dead, more of that country classic, psychedelic of course, but very much like classical songwriting songs about westerns and gunfights and saloons and all that cool stuff. But Steely Dan itself, also a band like The Dead and Phish to some extent, that's just very American.

They're so nihilistic. That viewpoint can only come from growing up, being there in like 68 and all that stuff. That kind of viewpoint can only do that. It's like Roger Lieber said something about Phil Norris, where he said it's so American, because only America could have that kind of viewpoint on the world where you find a woman and she's trying to kill you, and everything is black and white and smoky, and you're always drunk.

Chad (41:20.793)
Yes.

Jeff (41:28.409)
Steely Dan embodies a lot of that. One thing I find is that they're just so much themselves and they're just so uniquely American in their own kind of weird offshoot way. Leading beat poetry and all these kind of weird things that I don't know how many other places were really doing. Listening to jazz and all this stuff.

That's one thing that draws these three bands together is that they're all uniquely their own thing. Musically, Steely Dan doesn't sound like anybody. Even Walter Becker's solo stuff doesn't really sound like Steely Dan. Fagans does somewhat. I think that's kind of why I prefer Fagans solo work over Walters. Personally, I obviously get the appeal of Walters. It's great music. But he does kind of keep a little bit more. But even Donalds doesn't sound a d-

Chad (41:59.607)
Yeah.

Jeff (42:22.809)
like a ton like Steely Dan and I think that's one thing is you like Steely Dan because there's no else you can get. You can't get that sound from anybody else. I think that's one weird thing that draws a lot of people to it because if you like it, well that's it. You know like if you like Grunge, I'm not saying Nirvana is exactly like Soundgarden or whatever, but they all have that kind of similar

Jeff (42:52.049)
in that same vein. I've read that people saying, I first heard The Lone of the Year come on the radio in 1972, and nothing sounded like it. And that's like the classic rock staple. And so then what they would end up becoming is so much even more themselves, but even back then people were like, it was like the Carpenters would come on the radio, and then that would come on. And you'd be like, what is this? This is different from anything I've ever heard.

Chad (42:53.76)
Yeah, sure.

Chad (43:02.924)
Right.

Jeff (43:21.105)
Don't say to the carpenters that it's a good band, but you know, I mean... They're not stealing it. Ha ha ha. Yeah.

Chad (43:23.042)
Hahaha

Chad (43:28.362)
they're not. But yeah, I mean, it's funny because yeah, they're so sarcastic and so dark. And if you really listen to the lyrics, I mean, you know, they're just really

Jeff (43:34.735)
Yeah.

Chad (43:40.15)
you know, not happy, right? And it's funny that, you know, they would play Real and in the years on AM radio, in between the Carpenter's and the Bee Gees or something, you know, and it's just like people are dancing to Real and in the years. And it's like, that's a really cynical, nasty song, you know, when you get down to it. So it's just so funny.

Jeff (43:42.642)
Yeah.

Jeff (43:50.28)
yet.

Jeff (43:55.782)
Yeah.

Jeff (43:59.053)
Have you seen this? I think it's Donnie and Milly Osmond. They covered it on the show. And you're just like, this has to be the most bizarre choice that could have ever happened. Like, only on American TV in like 1972 could that have ever happened. There's no other time period or universe where that could have happened.

Chad (44:03.082)
Yes, the roller skating one.

Chad (44:20.399)
Yes.

Chad (44:25.174)
No, I agree. And I don't know if it was like drug fuel and maybe not because it was the Osmonds, but who knows, you know, but I mean, yeah. Probably, you know.

Jeff (44:30.143)
Yeah, the producers might have been. Yeah.

Chad (44:34.822)
I could totally see that. But yeah, and it's funny because not many people have tried to cover Steely Dan. And I mean, a lot of them have. I mean, there's lots of cover songs out there, but I guess nobody really stays 100% faithful to the song, in my opinion, because you don't wanna do a note for note cover, right? And because it's almost impossible. So I think so many of the cover songs are just like,

Jeff (44:55.153)
Yeah.

Chad (44:58.498)
are amazing because they're slight or, you know, full reinterpretations of a song, but they hold up because the songs are so damn well written. Right? So, you know, you hear...

Jeff (45:09.203)
Yeah.

Chad (45:13.75)
Bad Sneakers, right? I mean, that's one of my favorite Steely Dan songs and one of my favorite tracks off Katie Lied. One of my previous guests, Jane Sheldon, hi Jane, if you're watching, does this amazing, like sort of slower piano bass with strings cover. And it's, oh yeah, and you know, if you look at the episode that she was in, I think she was, I forget which one it was, maybe episode five. It's linked in the show notes there. It's just gorgeous, you know? And you could probably play that song

Jeff (45:15.601)
Yeah. Oh yeah.

Jeff (45:28.125)
Oh really?

Chad (45:43.744)
want and it's going to be great right because it's just such a well-constructed song.

Jeff (45:45.522)
Yeah.

Jeff (45:48.833)
But also jazz tunes too, which are of course meant to be played by a ton of people. So like, you know, you can improvise over it, maybe not very well if you are working at it, but you know, like these tunes are inherently... They were somewhat writing songbook tunes in their own kind of way, you know, like they said they thought getting into music was writing like...

Tim Panelli, you just show up in New York and we'll just sit down and play a piano and write some music. So that's what, yeah, I know. It did.

Chad (46:19.774)
And they did and they tried that and it kind of worked right I mean, ultimately, they got lucky that they wandered into the Brill building one day and can't think of his name the guy from Jay and the Americans just happened to be there and he was like, sure, play me a song. It's like serendipity.

Jeff (46:31.411)
Yeah.

Yeah, I know. But it's almost like you could just, maybe not the like, gaucho, some of those like insanely difficult songs that, I don't even know how somebody writes that, but for tunes like some of those earlier things, even all the way up through Katie Lied, you can see like a songbook type thing. Like you could see this just being printed.

at some point like, oh, we don't really have radio yet, but here's the tune, you can play it, you can sing it at a party. Maybe the lyrics might have to be less nihilistic, but to sell in like 1940, but you know, like there is some aspect of that traditional songwriter in them that I think is another reason you can gravitate towards them.

Chad (47:24.81)
Yeah, definitely.

Jeff (47:28.053)
They're one of a kind and I think that's why we all like them so much. You know, I can show my buddies, like, I talk about them so much that like people in my bands and they'll be like, oh, I checked them out and I had no idea they were that good. Like, the singer for the Daydreams, he was like, we all posted our favorite albums and I put Asia's mine. He was like, I listened to it. He was like, what do you think? He's like, I thought it was going to be dad rock. It was like unbelievable. I didn't even...

Chad (47:56.079)
hahahaha

Jeff (47:57.853)
He's like, I can't even comprehend it. It was like, I had no idea what I was listening to. It just blew me away. And it's, they're just so unique in that aspect that like, really a lot of people, you can't just put on a singular album. There are a lot of like 10 out of 10 albums out there, you know, and I've been trying to find those for a long time, especially being a prog guy too. I'm a huge progressive rock guy. So that's like the album format is that, but.

Even diving into that stuff, it's very hard to find a completed work like a Steely Dan album.

Chad (48:34.571)
Yeah.

What are some of the progressive rock bands you're into? And I guess, you know, besides the three that we've talked about, you know, Fish, The Dead and The Dan, like, what are some of your other influences or some other favorite, some other favorite artists?

Jeff (48:42.989)
Yeah. So, my top five favorite bands are Fish, Steely Dan, The Grateful Dead, and then there's an Italian progressive rock band called Goblin that I love. I'm a huge horror movie guy, and so at the seminary I was like 18, and as I was finding myself becoming a horror movie fan, I found out

and also just becoming a classic film guy, which I still am to this day, finding like, oh, this is guy from Italy that makes horror movies. And he has this progressive band called Goblin, the soundtracks and there's like a total mood band like the super unique. That's one of the best shows I've ever seen was me and my dad drove up to Toronto. I think it was like a Thursday. I think it was kind of like, why did you buy me a ticket for this? Like

We had to drive three hours to Toronto and then three hours back in the same night. And I was like, it'll be so worth it. And it was, but they're definitely a band that means a lot to me. And they're just like, so unique. I found myself liking a lot of unique bands. Genesis is another huge one for me. Whenever I was like, I was a big Rush guy. I still am the great band. But yeah. Oh, unbelievable.

Chad (50:05.751)
I love Rush.

Jeff (50:09.845)
That's probably the first like Fish is definitely a prog band But I think they were the first like traditional progressive band that I got into you know My dad had 2012 he has all like the records all those old records. He said that was actually the band that Got him into music. He said one day he heard Xanadu. He's like, oh like I get it I understand music now. I understand people like it. That's that's my favorite tune by them, too, but Finding them and I had a guitar teacher who was like a big King Crimson guy

Chad (50:30.704)
Ha ha

Jeff (50:39.269)
And he was like, check out King Crimson. And I listened to the first album in the court of the Crimson King. That's another album that blew me away. And then he's like, OK, now check out Genesis. And that was like, to this day, they're still my favorite. Like the classic bands, those first few albums they have outside of the first one where they tried to be a pop band. Later on, they would become a very good pop band, one of the best pop bands of the 80s. But.

like Trespass, Nursery Crime, Foxtrot, I mean, I actually have them in my room, like on vinyl, I bought them all. And, you know, The Lamb lies down on Broadway, especially. It was my favorite album until I heard Asia, actually. That was my favorite studio album for a long time. So I'm a big fan of them. I've gotten into Oasis in the past few months, which I know, I find like my five favorite bands very unique and then Oasis have banned famously.

Chad (51:26.134)
Huh, okay.

Jeff (51:34.453)
who ripped off a lot of people. But I just, I don't know what it is about them. I mean, I like 90s music, okay. I mean, Phish is a weird band, cause they're in 80s, they started in the 80s, got bigger than 90s, but never really sounded like any 90s bands. Oasis and Weasel are the two kind of like classic 90s bands I've really gravitated towards. Those are, in the past year or so, those have been probably my biggest finds musically. Is...

I mean, it's not weird. I mean, they're both great bands. Getting to see Weezer last year was awesome. I don't know if you're a fan of them or not. Yeah. Yeah, they came like 40 minutes away. I was like, I paid $40 for a ticket. Yeah, I showed up. I was like, good night. And might as well. And I had an awesome time. They definitely have a deep discography that I think a lot of people overlook. There's...

Chad (52:09.954)
Yeah, well, I love Weezer, yeah, but I have never seen them.

Jeff (52:31.773)
They're a band that has a lot of good and a lot of bad. It's one thing about them, you know. Some of the best albums, Blue, Pinkerton, and White, are pretty unbelievable albums. And you have like Black and Pacific Daze, or even I'm sitting there like, these are dreadful. Like, why am I even listening to these? But they're a great band, Oasis, those are like kind of the two that I've gravitated towards a lot. I mean, also,

Chad (52:47.78)
Hahaha

Jeff (52:58.357)
playing like in a disco band I listen to a lot of disco I'm always looking for like new songs it's one thing I always find like I'm always trying to find a new movie I'm not usually watching stuff I'm always trying to find a new thrill musically you know I guess you can't buy a thrill but you're always looking for that new thing and then you find that one specific song you get like obsessed with it I know I can listen to like one song like 30 40 times that was

Chad (53:14.912)
Hahaha

Chad (53:25.97)
Oh, me too.

Jeff (53:27.445)
break it down and there's a song that feels like it's probably been forgotten but it was I said in that playlist I sent you it's called Saturday night Sunday morning by Delma Houston somebody I never heard of and that song like blew me away it also hit me at a perfect time when you're going through some stuff with a girl so you know like you know like sometimes whatever that happens is just nothing sounds better than like a specific song that kind of

Chad (53:38.655)
Oh yeah, yeah.

Chad (53:47.588)
Yeah, I hear that.

Chad (53:54.999)
Hahaha

Jeff (53:58.021)
We all know it but That song is really just I've fallen in love with it's such a sophisticated thing. I find myself liking stuff a lot of chords You know I Shockingly use Steely Dan fan fish fan likes people with lots of chords complex stuff. So You know that that's kind of stuff. I've been listening to and I checked out some of the stuff that you were listening to in that um, there was Yeah, but there was

Chad (54:09.418)
Yeah, me too.

Chad (54:13.227)
Hahaha

Chad (54:23.702)
I was so random when I sent you.

Jeff (54:27.885)
I was wondering how you found some of these, like there's that song, uh, Lincoln Nebraska by Humber. I listened to that and I was like, that hit me. I was just like, this is like hitting me so hard. I, it's like, it was beautiful too. And I was like blown away. Like I would, are they like a new band or are they like, cause always. Yeah.

Chad (54:33.686)
Mm-hmm.

Chad (54:39.5)
Really?

Chad (54:49.319)
I think so.

Yeah, I think they're all totally new. I haven't really looked into them except for that song, but I do love that song. So I'm the same. Like you said, you're always, you know, chasing a thrill with music. And I'm doing the same, like I'll have the same five or six or seven artists that I love and will listen to all the time on purpose, like, you know, go push play on their albums. But I'm always trying to find something new and different to listen to. And, you know, the whole world of the internet has just made that so easy. And it's fantastic.

Jeff (55:01.086)
Yeah.

Jeff (55:07.622)
Yeah.

Jeff (55:20.009)
Yeah.

Chad (55:20.784)
So the playlist that I sent you and I usually link it in the show notes because it's always changing It's called stuff I want to listen to and basically what I do is When I find something or somebody recommends a song or I hear something that I haven't heard in years and I'm like, oh man I forgot about that song. I'll just jump into Spotify and throw it on that playlist

Jeff (55:37.565)
Yeah.

Chad (55:39.178)
And then, you know, when I get 30, 40, 50 songs on it, over time, I'll just sort of move the ones that I really like over to like a permanent playlist. So that one's sort of ephemeral, but right now there's, you know, until last night on Twitter, I was just like, okay, you know, I have to drive into, I live in New Jersey, I work in Manhattan. Ah, you should have, you should have.

Jeff (55:57.073)
I saw that, I was gonna send something but I was at band practice so I couldn't like, I saw it like as I was studying band practice, I'm like I can't send something I have to, you know?

Chad (56:05.798)
Hahaha

So I'll put out a call on Twitter sometimes or Instagram and be like, hey everybody, you know, I've got an hour and a half commute each way tomorrow and I need some new stuff to listen to give me a song you're obsessed with. And a lot of people are really cool and they'll shoot me a song, two songs, three songs. And, you know, sometimes I've heard them before, sometimes I haven't. So the ones that I'm not familiar with, I'll throw them on the playlist. There's also a newsletter, it's the name of it's escaping me right now. Maybe I'll link that in the show notes too. But it's like a new music discovery.

Jeff (56:21.063)
Yeah.

Jeff (56:34.395)
Okay.

Chad (56:37.18)
newsletter and this guy just combs the internet for like new artists and you know

songs that are like blowing up in different, you know, music critic circles and stuff like that. And he'll put out like, I think it's a weekly newsletter. I mean, it's monthly anyway. And I feel like that Lincoln Nebraska song, I think it was from that newsletter, if I remember correctly. So I'm, you know, and that's, that's just one of the ways I discover music is just, you know, asking people and doing lots of reading, you know.

Jeff (57:06.43)
Yeah.

Chad (57:09.066)
And what's fun too sometimes is like, you know, if you have Spotify and you have the setting turned on where it'll just like serve you up songs after you're finished listening to whatever, like if you listen to an album or a playlist, once you reach the end, Spotify will just give you stuff that it thinks that you would like based on what you've just been listening to. And you know, their algorithm's pretty awful sometimes, but once in a blue moon, like I'll be in the car and playlist comes to an end and it starts shuffling up just random stuff that I'd never heard before.

Jeff (57:09.077)
That's the best way.

Jeff (57:30.538)
Oh yeah.

Chad (57:38.98)
I found a lot of stuff that way, believe it or not, because it gets it right about 30% of the time, but when it gets it right, it usually nails it. You know?

Jeff (57:46.669)
Yeah, hey! 30% is a good average. It's 3 out of 10 songs. So I mean, skip buttons right there. It's not like if you don't vibe with something, you're like, ah, okay, let's wait. Oh, I like that. Yeah, so it's pretty good. Yeah.

Chad (57:55.649)
That's it.

Chad (57:59.998)
Yeah, well, I do lots of lots of skipping. But yeah, so

Chad (58:05.822)
Yeah, and I've become a little bit obsessive with, you know, the Spotify wrapped at the end of the year is fun, but the, they always send you a playlist. It's like, you know, your top songs for the year. So what I've done is I, every year now, I just did it for 2023. Finally, it took me a while to get there, but I'll add in all the songs that were on.

Jeff (58:15.302)
Yeah.

Chad (58:26.638)
the current year's playlist and I have a running playlist back to 2017 when I first subscribed to Spotify premium. So I've got basically my top songs of all time of me being on Spotify and there's this thing called

Jeff (58:37.586)
Oh that's cool.

Chad (58:44.626)
Smarter playlists. It's like a website service. So you hook it into Spotify and you can give it all these parameters So like you could pull in stuff from a playlist and mix it with another playlist and the dupe stuff and everything else So I built this filter that basically pulls in alternate songs from each of my top songs playlists from each year And then it D duplicates them, although it doesn't do a great job So I have to go and go through manually do it and it spits them out into a new playlist So like I have this like, you know

Jeff (58:54.65)
Oh really?

Jeff (59:05.501)
That's fun.

Jeff (59:11.602)
Yeah.

Chad (59:15.06)
from the last six years or seven years right now. So that's been fun because it's fun to press shuffle on that and just go through you know it's like four or five hundred songs I think.

Jeff (59:25.245)
Yeah, that's awesome. You make me want to get Spotify. I use YouTube Music because, well, I already pay for YouTube Premium, so it's the same thing. So it's like, I'm a working musician. I don't make a lot of money. So I need to like, I'll use like one. But that sounds awesome. The lap, it's the one time a year I get jealous online. I'm like, oh, everybody's getting to see what they're listening to. I can usually kind of guess, but...

Chad (59:33.43)
That's there. Yeah.

Chad (59:49.213)
hahahaha

Jeff (59:55.177)
It's nice having that list. That's one thing my buddy, he'll always send me his. Usually at the top it's like some songs I'll show him. For a few years it was Steely Dan, because I was really into it. He was like, oh that's awesome! The band Ghost, I showed him them. He's like, oh I love these guys. It's always cool also to see your buddies. They're like, oh wow I got to show you that band. You like them so much, you listen to them. That's one almost good warning. That you're able to show them something that they enjoy so much. That they listen to a lot.

Chad (01:00:05.942)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (01:00:24.138)
Yeah, oh I love that. That's one of the most fun things about, you know, being able to have stuff online like Spotify and YouTube is like it's so easy to share music with people now. So, you know, and by the way, it was a whole different thing back in the day when you had to like make a mix tape or burn somebody a CD. It was more of a labor of love, but even still I find myself.

Jeff (01:00:32.754)
Yeah.

Jeff (01:00:38.996)
Yeah.

Chad (01:00:43.666)
not only sending people links to playlists, but like making playlists for people, and being like, okay, if you like this, let me give you 10 other songs that you should be listening to or whatever. And I love getting those back.

Jeff (01:00:48.221)
Yeah.

Jeff (01:00:53.413)
Yeah, I love doing that. It's personal. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's so great being like, check this out, and then like, oh, check this out, and then you kind of get into a sharing war almost. Like, you're just kind of like, ah, this is cool, this is cool, and then you, it's just the best way to find music is through your friends. Because obviously your friends are probably gonna like some stuff that you like, I'm guessing.

Chad (01:01:04.04)
Ha ha ha.

Chad (01:01:14.598)
It's funny because when I was in the band, you know, back when I was in my 20s, our bass player was like eight, nine years older than the rest of us. But, you know, so he had a whole different taste in music. He was into the same stuff that we were playing and, you know, a lot of some of the stuff was new to him, but a lot of the current stuff he was into anyway. But he went.

way off in his own world of music. He's the one that got me into Rush. He turned me on to artists like Pat Travers and Humble Pie and I can't even think of all the bands that he was responsible for getting me into. But we would do.

Jeff (01:01:43.947)
Okay, yeah.

Jeff (01:01:52.67)
Yeah.

Chad (01:01:56.582)
you know, I would pick him up because he was on the way to band practice for my house. So I would pick him up and drive him to band practice and drop him off afterwards. And we had like probably 20 minutes in the car together. Um, so that was our time to like play each other stuff. So I play him stuff that he wasn't familiar with, like new bands and then, you know, on the way home or whatever was his turn. So he'd bring a cassette or two and pop it into his, his or a CD. Maybe at the time I forget what we had, but, um, so he'd play me stuff on the way home. And it was always like,

Jeff (01:02:01.309)
Okay

Chad (01:02:26.716)
Frank Zappa and you know like deeper he was really into progressive stuff like Rush was his favorite band I think he saw Rush live like 35 times or something by that point in his life. So he was like a little bit obsessed But it was fun. And that was how I discovered a lot of a lot of bands, you know

Jeff (01:02:28.519)
Yeah.

Jeff (01:02:37.227)
Yeah.

Jeff (01:02:45.949)
Oh yeah, I mean, especially people from an older generation are definitely always great, so like, oh no, like, you gotta check this out. And you know, like, no, like, this is what I use listen to, because I always like to hear what people are listening to. It's just so much fun.

You get to listen to it and have a discussion. Even if you don't really care for it, you still talk about it. And you're like, oh, this is why I liked it, this is why I didn't like it. As long as they're open to having a discussion. That may be a slightly negative discussion. But it's just such a great way to not just, you know, get to know more music, but just to get to know somebody. I find it's just a great way. You know, my friend will get in the car and she'll be like, can I play music? I'll be like, yeah, obviously. Like...

Chad (01:03:13.518)
Sure.

Jeff (01:03:33.489)
I don't think I've ever said no to it, because I'm like, what are you listening to these days? It's just fun. Yeah.

Chad (01:03:36.474)
Right. Yeah, definitely. So Jeff, thank you so much for being on. I would like to wrap it up. But I have one parting question that I've been asking all my guests and I think it's a pretty good one. So I'm curious to see what your answer is. So we've talked about a lot of bands, a lot of, you know, artists that we like.

What's the most unlikely song that you're obsessed with? So given your love for all the bands that you mentioned, now that I know that, like throw me a curve ball. If you had to tell me one song that you've been listening to on repeat that just doesn't fit your normal mold, what would that be?

Jeff (01:04:11.763)
You know

Jeff (01:04:18.149)
That's hard. That's not an easy question. I tend to kind of stick to some of the same stuff in some ways, but I do have to throw it to my guys. Being a 2000s kid, I am a Nickelback fan. So I think I should throw it to Rockstar is a song that I have in my playlist.

Chad (01:04:19.515)
Hahaha

Chad (01:04:38.335)
Okay.

Jeff (01:04:46.597)
People are always go all the way so like I was like eight or ten when it came out I still love it. I could I know all the words. That's definitely a tune that people are like Why are you listening that? Cuz I like it

Chad (01:05:01.56)
And that's kind of the point of the question is like, you know, I'm a firm believer that there's no such thing as a guilty pleasure. And you know, I hate, I hate music shaming. Like if you like something, play it loud, who cares? You know, like if you're into it, you're into it. And that's beautiful.

Jeff (01:05:07.555)
I agree.

Yeah.

Chad (01:05:15.998)
So great. Well, again, thanks for coming on. Like I said, I'll link a bunch of stuff in the show notes and you can find both of us on Twitter. So happy to continue the discourse there with anybody who's watching or listening and thanks for joining and we'll talk to you soon. All right.

Jeff (01:05:19.433)
Thank you for having me.

Jeff (01:05:27.281)
Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Jeff (01:05:36.949)
Peace out.